Hardball With Chris Matthews   View more episodes

Aired at 08:00 PM on Monday, Apr 15, 2013 (4/15/2013)      View all transcripts from this day

Transcript

00:00:00Marathon today.
00:00:01A third bomb, as we just heard, exploded at the jfk library a short time later.
00:00:06Nbc news reports they were small improvised explosive devices.
00:00:09Here's video of that first explosion today.
00:00:19Police say at least two people are dead already and 23 more injured.
00:00:22In fact, witnesses and hospital officials now say some of those injuries were severe including people with missing limbs.
00:00:28Governor deval patrick called what happened today a horrific attack.
00:00:31Officials say that a third explosion, as we said, occurred at the jfk library an hour later.
00:00:37Residents of the city were warned to stay home today.
00:00:39In fact, the blast happened about two h after the first runners crossed the finish line.
00:00:43At that iconic event, the boston marathon.
00:00:46Because of the magnitude of the event today, there were tens of thousands of spectators right there at the finish line.
00:00:51Where the bomb went off.
00:00:53Two bombs went off.
00:00:54Putting them in the blast area.
00:00:56Luckily, there were also police officers and medical personnel on the scene in position to give immediate assistance.
00:01:01According to the white house, the president was briefed by members of his senior staff 00 today, ten minutes after the bombing he called boston mayor tommy menino and massachusetts governor deval patrick offering support they might need.
00:01:15Because bombs are involved, it's it's hard to escape the conclusion this is an act of terrorism.
00:01:21Terrorism like any act of human violence has a purpose.
00:01:23Setting bombs at the finish line of a popular american event, a celebration of life like the boston marathon is designed to attack the heart of this country's life.
00:01:31Hit the people where they're happiest.
00:01:33Most at home.
00:01:34Most joyous about their times and their country.
00:01:36How many bombs have we seen planted around the world at weddings, or other festive events?
00:01:41Or at well-appointed hotels or gorgeous resorts?
00:01:44This is the bull's-eye for the terrorists.
00:01:46Hit you where you feel safe so you won't feel safe anywhere.
00:01:50They hit you where you're most at ease in your society so you won't feel at ease ever.
00:01:54This is what we saw today in bosten a the finish line of the marathon.
00:01:57If isn't new.
00:01:58What it is, once again, is here.
00:02:02Clint van zandt, was a profiler for the fbi.
00:02:05He's with us now.
00:02:06It's like the two planes hitting the world trade center.
00:02:08Once the second hits you know it wasn't an accident.
00:02:10We have the third bombing at the jfk library miles away from here in central boston.
00:02:23>> Time may be the factor that helps us determine, are there nr devices out there?
00:02:28You know from your experience reporting these things, many things we'll have an initial one or two explosions then there will be one time at a later position, a later location, either to divert attention away or perhaps to kill or injure first responders.
00:02:42With this many devices, at least three, and the level of sophistication that it would have took to built these, we have to at least, you know, consider the lone wolf terrorist as well as is this something inspired by some type of international group?
00:02:59When we look at that white smoke, chris, that white smoke from that first device, that could be indicative of a low-order explosive.
00:03:07In essence, not like the military c4 or plastic explosive we hear about.
00:03:13Nonetheless, these are deadly devices.
00:03:15They're intended to kill.
00:03:16As you say, for terrorists, now they've stood up on a platform realizing that 96 countries were recognized as runners in a mar non.
00:03:25So this is not just an attack on america.
00:03:28Once again, this is an attack on the world.
00:03:30>> Let me ask you about the device.
00:03:33We're all trying to figure it out.
00:03:35Nbc believes based on authorities, police authorities, that it was an improvised explosive device like the ones we hear kill american troops in afghanistan and iraq all the time along the roadside.
00:03:48Does it require a detonator by something like a garage door opener, something like that?
00:03:52Does the person have to be present?
00:03:54>> No, number one, you don't.
00:03:56You could have simply a timing device.
00:04:00Realize that this device went off about an hour after the initial winner crossed the finish line.
00:04:07But again, with 26,000 runners, at least half the runners still had to cross that finish line.
00:04:14And today, you can have a relatively low-order explosive but you can have a sophisticated detonator, something, chris, as simple as a cell phone where i could be dozens of miles away and make a phone call.
00:04:27You know, chris, that could be one of the reasons the authorities have shut down the boston airport is because they scramat they have.
00:04:45They have at least three explosive devices.
00:04:47What they don't know is who planted it and what message other than one more attack on america have we heard today?
00:04:55>> You know, in the area of speculation, going after the kennedy library is a way of going after a particular point of view or a particular part of american history.
00:05:05John f. kennedy.
00:05:07This year is the anniversary of his assassination.
00:05:09I was thinking going into boston, known to be a liberal city, although it's much more complicated than that, and going kennedy library is part of this horrible terrorist attack, does it tell you anything at the library?
00:05:21There they are at the library with the fire truck.
00:05:23Does it tell you anything they would hit the library of john f.
00:05:26Kennedy?
00:05:26>> Well, it tells us that these are not only deadly acts but these are symbolic acts.
00:05:32Realize, chris, as you know better than anybody, today is patriots day in boston.
00:05:38Today is basically as far as they're concerned almost a national holiday.
00:05:42It's probably the busiest holiday in boston.
00:05:46Schools are closed.
00:05:47Hundreds, tens of thousands of people come out to see something like that.
00:05:51This, the boston marathon, this is america.
00:05:55This has been run for, you know, so many years.
00:05:59We're yoused to this being an american event.
00:06:02People come from all over the world to run in this type of event and now simultaneously, the two strong symbols of america, number one, the boston marathon, number two, jfk, the jfk library.
00:06:16Again, this is exactly as you suggest, this is meant to frighten us.
00:06:21It's meant to confuse us.
00:06:24And it's meant to make us look different directions saying, where is that next attack coming from?
00:06:31Again, could be a lone wolf.
00:06:35Could be an organization.
00:06:35This is why we pay the fbi, the boston police and all these other agencies to come together and realize it could be as simple as somebody seeing someone drop a backpack, or could be one of our sophisticated surveillance cameras that picks up an individual dropping off a package at one, two, now apparently three different locations.
00:06:56If we can show one person or multiple people, we have an idea are we dealing with a lone wolf or dealing with a dedicated group?
00:07:04>> How long, clint, does it take before an international terrorist group lets you know they're responsible, to take their own sort of exciting accountability for it?
00:07:15How often does that take?
00:07:15And with regard to american terrorism, in fact, in oklahoma city, did the domestic terrorist ever take public responsibility for that act?
00:07:23Would we expect that?
00:07:24>> No, and again, part of the reason at the oklahoma federal building, of course, is that that sharp state trooper pulled timothy McVeigh over for that loose license plate.
00:07:35He didn't get a chance to go public.
00:07:37But internationally, two different things happened.
00:07:39Number one, we have groups that claim credit.
00:07:42Chris, they usually do it the same day because they want to get maximum exposure.
00:07:46Number two, we'll have individuals and groups that had nothing to do with it whatsoever claim credit, nonetheless, simply trying to draw attention and to do fund-raising and recruitment for their own organization.
00:08:01So we'll be looking internationally at this term, the chatter.
00:08:04What type of conversations are going on on the internet?
00:08:08Telephone lines, known terrorist groups.
00:08:10Who's talking back and forth?
00:08:13And who's claiming credit for this who risk event?
00:08:18>> Stay with us as we do our continuing coverage.
00:08:23Jeff, for universal sports, was running in the marathon and approaching the finish line as the bomb went off.
00:08:27Thanks so much for joining us, jeff.
00:08:31Tell us what happened when you were there?
00:08:32>> I was coming down boyleston street.
00:08:35Lucky for me I was trying to attain an under four-hour marathon.
00:08:41So I really sped up coming down boyleston street to get to the finish line.
00:08:48I literally crossed the finish line, took three steps and heard a loud explosion.
00:08:57Turned around and there was a mushroom, smoke mushroom.
00:09:00Looked to be about 20 feet in the air or so.
00:09:03Probably about three seconds later, it seemed like, I heard a second one.
00:09:06And then, you know, realized what was going on.
00:09:13The volunteers did an incredible job ushering the runners away and they all immediately ran toward the explosion.
00:09:22My wife and three boys were there.
00:09:25Luckily they did not make it to the finish line where they were supposed to be seated to watch but they got stuck in traffic coming back from wesley.
00:09:38That's my immediate concern.
00:09:40A volunteer offered up their cell phone.
00:09:41It was very difficult to get through.
00:09:43And, you know, get ahold of them.
00:09:46But luckily, you know, they were fine.
00:09:48>> The people who are in the stands there, off to the side in front of the commercial buildings there, they took the worst of it.
00:09:55Did you notice one of your fellow runners, I believe he was right a few paces behind you, got thrown off his feet?
00:10:01Did you know that?
00:10:02Could you see that happen?
00:10:04>> I did not.
00:10:04As I said, I was probably -- >> we're watching it right now.
00:10:07The guy in red top and blue shorts.
00:10:10Just fell right to the ground as if it hit hard by that concussion.
00:10:15Right there.
00:10:15There he is on the ground.
00:10:18>> I was probably 10 to 15 seconds in front.
00:10:21So, you know, I did not -- I did not look back.
00:10:24It was all, you know, very confusing.
00:10:31Throughout the marathon all day, loud, people cheering, music, you know, drums playing.
00:10:36So, you know, you're kind of used to after four hours you're used to a lot of noise.
00:10:43This obviously was louder and obviously the smoke, obviously very telling, but it was all a very confusing situation for a few moments.
00:10:51>> Did you know that they hit -- whoever set off the bombs, it may be somebody else, but looks like it was simultaneous, therefore, coordinated, choreographed if you will.
00:11:00There's a bombing that took place within an hour at the jfk library at columbia point, pretty far away.
00:11:06How does that -- maybe you're not the one to ask, but it certainly strikes me we're looking at some real serious choreographed attempt to hit a national iconic event with 96 countries participating.
00:11:17They wanted to have this story spread around the world.
00:11:21Jeff?
00:11:21>> Well, yeah, I mean, that's obviously all day throughout the marathon there were people running with flags, different countries.
00:11:30You know, there's a lot of military, you know, running or walking.
00:11:40A lot of different nationality flags along the way.
00:11:44So I guess that's a possibility.
00:11:44And I will tell you, you know, it took me an hour and a half after I finished to make it back to my hotel.
00:11:52It's mayhem.
00:11:53Streets are closed off.
00:11:56You know, you've never seen more fire trucks and police cars and ambulances.
00:12:02Obviously there's -- people are a lot of speculation about different things going on, but, yeah, I mean, it's kind of mass confusion in the city right now.
00:12:10No one really knows, you know, where to go or how to get out of here or what to do.
00:12:16>> Thanks for giving us your firsthand account.
00:12:19This is going to be part of your life the rest of your life that you were there and you and your family, lucky for them, got through this whole thing.
00:12:28Thanks coming on msnbc to give us your firsthand account of this.
00:12:32I want to go back to clint van zandt and the significance of anyone who would set a bomb with 96 countries participating.
00:12:38You were the first to raise this.
00:12:40This guarantees this story will run in every bit of media around the world.
00:12:44>> Yeah, it really does, chris.
00:12:45And, again, when we look at symbolic targets, and realize between the fbi and the secret service, the atf, marshal service, other agents that help coordinate security, each one of these you have to look at what is not only the national, but what is the international significance of an event like this?
00:13:04We see things like the super bowl and the nba championship.
00:13:08And you know the final four in college basketball.
00:13:11But when we consider athletic events, this probably next to the olympics has the greatest international representation of any event like it.
00:13:22>> It's so big in east africa where I've had some time in my life.
00:13:26The idea, oftentimes a kenyan will win or an ethiopian will win.
00:13:31That is such a huge event for those countries to have a victor in such an iconic international event here in boston.
00:13:37And now to have this marred this way.
00:13:40>> And when we look at the timing, if, in fact, we have this sophisticated timing, chris, realize that if the bomb was set, the bombs were set to go off not when that first person would have crossed the finish line, but to let the bulk of the, for lack of a better term, professional hardcore runners would have finished.
00:14:01But then just like your last guest, chris, the day in-day out america, and france, whoever runs these events runs it because their heart's in it.
00:14:17They know they're not going to win but want to be part of something.
00:14:21Their heart says I want to participate and there's no greater event than be in boston.
00:14:25Now forever when one thinks of boston, you won't be thinking, perhaps, of this as the marathon that started in 1887 or it's the oldest marathon in the world.
00:14:35You'll be thinking about 2013 when that believed terrorist attack took place.
00:14:41What will that do to this marathon and others like it around the world?
00:14:46Again, terrorism has a platform and one more time it's stood up and yelled at us.
00:14:52>> Yeah.
00:14:54Think munich.
00:14:54Mun munich.
00:14:57There's an pampl example.
00:14:59Thank you.
00:15:01Let me go to michael, an msnbc analyst.
00:15:04THREE OSIONS, PERHAPS IEDs All pretty much within the hour.
00:15:07Different locales.
00:15:08One 100 yards from the other.
00:15:10Also one miles away at columbia point at kennedy library.
00:15:13>> Officials are still trying to be tious.
00:15:17No doubt in my mind it's a relatively sophisticated act of terrorism.
00:15:22As clint just mentioned, the thought of placing two devices 100 yards apart out now is who's responsible?
00:15:37Are there any more devices anywhere else?
00:15:39That's why we're seeing heightened security measures across the board in boston, new york, washington, d.c.
00:15:44People have to make sure there are no other threats out there.
00:15:49And over the next 24, 48 hours, we'll have a better sense of who might have been responsible for this.
00:15:52>> Was this an anti-personnel bomb on purpose?
00:15:56We have 2ad, 23 injured.
00:16:00In a crowd like that it could have been worse as bad as it is.
00:16:03>> Really hard to say so far, chris.
00:16:05It is possible there were bolts, something like that that were intended to kill more people.
00:16:09They're going to have a little bit more sense of that.
00:16:11With the crowds that were there, I guess casualties will go up, unfortunately, so far if there were only two killed, although tragic, this is not nearly as bad as it could have been.
00:16:21>> Let me ask you about domestic terrorism as a category.
00:16:28Normally domestic terrorists, on the far right, extremists, do they advertise after they do something like this?
00:16:34Do they try to get credit as a group or hate america so much or its politics or government that they just want to do the damage, they don't care if they get public credit, if you will?
00:16:43>> What we'll see over the coming couple hours and days is lots of people taking credit for this.
00:16:47We'll probably have al qaeda take credit for it.
00:16:49We'll have domestic terrorists take credit for it.
00:16:52It will be the responsibility of the fbi and boston police to figure out if any of those are actually real.
00:16:59CASES LIKE timothy McVeigh destroying the oklahoma city courthouse federal building, no one took credit for that.
00:17:05It might be some time or never that someone actually takes credit for this.
00:17:09Lots of people will say they were responsible for it.
00:17:10>> I was thinking, again, it's early, it's an early situation, but going after the kennedy library, not something at bunker hill, n something from the freedom trail or anything that kind of historic, but a modern political figure of the democratic party.
00:17:23Does that tell you anything?
00:17:24>> I don't think it does yet, chris.
00:17:27Again, that is, you know, john kennedy is iconic throughout the world to a lot of people.
00:17:32And that's a significant site.
00:17:34And if these were terrorists, i think it's still a good chance that they were homegrown, maybe some international component here.
00:17:42They are probably people who understand an event like the boston marathon.
00:17:46Understand jfk library.
00:17:48Does that mean they're domestic right wing extremists or left wing extremists or al qaeda?
00:17:55>> He was assassinated by somebody with a political ambition.
00:17:59Hold on, michael.
00:18:01 congressman eating from massachusetts has fresh information.
00:18:05Thank you for joining us by phone.
00:18:07>> Well, it's a sad day in boston, certainly.
00:18:11And one that continues to unfold.
00:18:15The national guard contacted our office and wanted to state the obvious to people that please, stay in your homes, stay in your apartments.
00:18:23Don't venture out.
00:18:23The reason they're saying that, besides the two bombs that were detonated at the finish line area and the one at the jfk library, there was also an undetonated bomb discovered at a hotel on boyleston street right in that vicinity.
00:18:40We have reports now, a source to my office saying there's another bomb undetonated that has been discovered.
00:18:49Location of which is not disclosed at this point.
00:18:52There you have five bombs.
00:18:55Two that were, you know, unfortunately took the lives of at least two confirmed people.
00:19:04And injured over a score of people.
00:19:05So it's -- it's sad in our area, but at the time, to realize this, our homeland security, and before, this is an ongoing criminal investigation.
00:19:14The crime scene is unknown.
00:19:15People should use their heads and be careful.
00:19:18Because we are finding additional bombs.
00:19:20>> Yes, and also there's a pattern, all of them are set in obviously very public places.
00:19:24Two at the finish line.
00:19:25One at the jfk library at columbia point.
00:19:29As you point out, one has been found unexploded in a hotel near here apparently.
00:19:33And one where it's a bit murky, we haven't reported it but there's talk of another one.
00:19:38This means basically when you say people stay home, that's logical.
00:19:41Don't go to a public place right now.
00:19:50>> We're fortunate in boston.
00:19:53We have the fusion center at the airport.
00:19:54They're bringing in fbi people from new york, bomb experts from all around the country.
00:19:58The response will be terrific.
00:20:01The medical response, because of the marathon, itself, was there on the scene, and we have all the boston hospitals.
00:20:09You know, you cannot exclude this is an act of a terrorist.
00:20:13Now, we have an international event at the marathon that is the oldest marathon.
00:20:19And we also have tax day, april 15th.
00:20:23So we don't know if that's a kind of symbol that it's domestic or terrorists might use as well.
00:20:30There's a lot that's not known.
00:20:31We're beginning to get a lot of information.
00:20:33That will be shared with the public for their own safety, but a word of caution to everyone to really be careful.
00:20:38>> Well, you're right, congressman.
00:20:41So many iconic dates.
00:20:42It's patriots day, marathon day, the kennedy library, always up there, and as you pointed out, i forgot, I filed already, it's filing day for the federal income tax which does cause some emotions around the country.
00:20:53Sometimes in the wrong parts of the brain.
00:20:56Anyway, thank you congressman keating for joiningfrom massachusetts.
00:21:00We got word, available, a first person video from the "boston " look.
00:21:05There it is.
00:21:09Everyone had a camera today.
00:21:13Michael, there you go.
00:21:14What do you make of that smoke and that -- can you tell -- clint was saying -- clint, you were saying that white smoke suggests not a state of the art or something super sophisticated in terms of explosive device.
00:21:29Oh my god.
00:21:30There it goes again.
00:21:32Your thoughts, michael.
00:21:34>> This just looks, unfortunately, so much like events we've seen in spain, in the uk, and obviously as we mentioned, oklahoma city many years ago.
00:21:47Is it a terrorist attack?
00:21:50Exactly who did it?
00:21:52Exactly how many people are killed or injured?
00:21:53It's going to be hard to say.
00:21:54You can look at that picture and hear the terror.
00:21:57As clint also mentioned, the people who did this, part of what they wanted is public and potentially global attention.
00:22:04And in that respect, they timed this very well.
00:22:06>> Remember we had two planes hit the world trade center and the second plane told us this is no accident.
00:22:12Let's listen now, because that person who took that, perhaps the videocamera, took a very clear picture with very good sound on it.
00:22:18As you listen now, you'll be able to hear the two distinct explosions.
00:22:24One after the other.
00:22:56>> Hey, there's going to be people hurt out there.
00:22:58>> That's a chilling sound of those people and running for their lives.
00:23:03Then to have that second one come just as they had already registered what was going on, to have that come right into them, right out of the midst of that smoke.
00:23:09>> It's just -- I think what we heard from governor patrick and ed davis, commissioner, it shows how seriously they are taking this.
00:23:18Even after the fact.
00:23:19It is very rare that we have an event even like this where people are being told stay in their rooms, stay in their houses.
00:23:28They clearly know this is a very fluid situation.
00:23:29They're obviously not confident they know where this ends yet.
00:23:31>> Michael, thank you.
00:23:32I want to go to the white house to nbc's kristen welker.
00:23:36She's there right now.
00:23:37What's the president been doing in regard to this horror since 3:00?
00:23:41>> Chris, I can tell you president obama just finished a phone call with fbi director robert muller as well as dhs secretary janet napolitano.
00:23:50They have been briefing him on the coordinated response between the federal, state and local officials.
00:23:56He has been keeping up to date with this situation since about 3:00 when he was first notified.
00:24:02I can also tell you that he has placed calls to the boston mayor, tom menino, as well as the governor of massachusetts deval patrick to extend his thoughts but also to say the administration will be putting its full weight and resources behind the response to this crisis in boston.
00:24:19Now, out of an abundance of caution, the secret service has closed off pennsylvania avenue to foot traffic.
00:24:25That is the road outside of the white house, chris.
00:24:29There's never any vehicles that travels along pennsylvania avenue outside of the white house, but as of right now it's been closed to foot traffic as well.
00:24:35I want to emphasize that that is out of an abundance of caution.
00:24:39That is something that normally happens in this type of situation.
00:24:43So president obama continuing to stay up to date on the developments and the investigation and, again, just wrapping up a phone call with fbi director robert muller and dhs secretary janet napolitano.
00:24:54>> Who has the lead?
00:24:58Have we been able to figure out in terms of bureaucracy and our response?
00:25:01Is it fbi clearly now?
00:25:02>> We haven't gotten a direct answer at that, but that would be the indication.
00:25:07That is why president obama just had a phone call with them.
00:25:10It will be one of several phone calls throughout this evening that will take place between this administration and state and local officials.
00:25:16Chris?
00:25:16>> I think the fbi is pretty good, aren't they, michael?
00:25:19>> They are.
00:25:20In a situation like this, investigation of an event after the fact, fbi through the fbi joint terrorism task force and boston will have the lead for this.
00:25:27All the other agencies will play their supporting roles.
00:25:30So we'll probably see at least for a few days some tightened security by the department of homeland security at airports.
00:25:36The cia will be working its sources overseas.
00:25:40Everyone plays a part.
00:25:41The fbi will have a clear lead working in -- >> guys, there's a picture.
00:25:46Guys -- >> we're going to have that picture.
00:25:48Everyone's talking about it.
00:25:48We'll have it.
00:25:49Let's go right now to adam zellweger, a witness to the explosions in boston.
00:25:54What was your experience, adam?
00:25:55Where were you standing when this explosion took place?
00:25:58The first and second?
00:25:59>> Hi, chris.
00:26:00I was standing at the entrance to the back amtrak station, boarding a train back to new york.
00:26:08>> And what did you see and feel?
00:26:11>> I didn't see, I felt and i heard both of the explosions.
00:26:17Just like at ground level, two very loud noises and just immediate and heavy response by police.
00:26:24>> By the whom?
00:26:25>> By the police.
00:26:26>> Yeah.
00:26:28So how far away were you from that?
00:26:30We're looking at the explosion now, adam.
00:26:32How far were you from the explosion with all the white smoke coming up now?
00:26:35>> I would estimate at least two blocks.
00:26:37I don't know boston that well, but I was going into the back bay station.
00:26:40It felt like about two blocks.
00:26:42>> Great.
00:26:44Thank you so much for that, adam, for the firsthand account.
00:26:46We've been getting them all afternoon.
00:26:49We're going to keep getting them.
00:26:50>> Thank you.
00:26:50>> Clint, let me go back to you.
00:26:52It's so, to me, terrorism in its worst case succeeds, it shuts down public access, it keeps people at home.
00:27:00It sort of buries society under worry.
00:27:03I remember when I first came to washington, you could drive up and down in front of the white house.
00:27:08If you didn't like nixon you could blow your horn and tell him to leave.
00:27:10There's a tremendous sense of access up on capitol hill.
00:27:13You didn't have to have any kind of pass.
00:27:16You walked around from building to building until they had the case of domestic terrorism in '71.
00:27:21Remember the explosion inside the capitol building which was much worse, I can tell you, because I was a police officer back then.
00:27:26Much worse than anybody knew.
00:27:28And because of that, and now it's very hard to go visit your congressman or senator.
00:27:31It's impossible to drive past the white house.
00:27:35We get the report terrorism has won again in its small ways because they've shut down even foot traffic in front of 1600 pennsylvania.
00:27:43That gets more and more every year.
00:27:44This closing down of public spaces.
00:27:50>> Chris, that's why we call these things public events.
00:27:53We look at our buildings in washington and other places and we say that we, you know, should have public access.
00:27:59And terrorism wins not only when we put these thousand-pound flower pots in front of a building to keep a truck bomber from driving through.
00:28:09Bullet when we come more and more restrictive.
00:28:13I mean, we look at times square now on new year's eve and the work that th police department goes through trying to clear people, trying to put them in.
00:28:23What years ago, you know, it was just -- it was just a happening.
00:28:27A million people got together and have a good time.
00:28:29They do now, but we put them through metal detectors, we tell them good luck, there's no bathrooms.
00:28:34And the boston marathon, what more can we do?
00:28:38How more do we have a million spectators go through metal detecters?
00:28:44And realize that you can make explosive devices out of material that won't necessarily set off a metal detector.
00:28:51So, again, most of the time we rely on the good nature of people to make these events work.
00:29:01One bad individual, one lone wolf can cause the terrible damage we saw at oklahoma city, and perhaps now in boston.
00:29:09>> Well, I guess this is good news, tom putnam, I know him pretty well, he's the curator at the kennedy library in boston on columbia scene, there was not an explosion, there was a mechanical room fire.
00:29:26We've getting conflicts on this all along.
00:29:29You can have a fire and explosion beforehand.
00:29:31He said there never was.
00:29:32He said no fire was intentionally set.
00:29:35We have to dial back now from what was a report coming out a few moments ago this was aen explosion.
00:29:40It was a fire.
00:29:42It could have nothing to do with this and probably did not.
00:29:46We're left with two explosions.
00:29:49 officials at nbc news not to worry about a further explosion up in boston.
00:29:53There's no indication something further is coming although the police are guarding the situation.
00:29:58What do youmake of that, clint?
00:30:02>> Number one, it's good to be able to dial back.
00:30:04I think for all of us to know that this wasn't that far reaching.
00:30:10And, again, to have that third -- that second location at the kennedy library not only were there significant political implications, perhaps, to something like that -- >> which are gone now.
00:30:21>> Again, it made the threat far greater.
00:30:24So now the threat is isolated, again.
00:30:26People are dead.
00:30:26People are injured.
00:30:28But this puts it back into the realm of one crazy sick person as opposed to some dedicated team of international terrorists.
00:30:39>> Well, michael, tax day today.
00:30:40That came up.
00:30:42You know, I was thinking of all the iconic events, or told about them today.
00:30:46I knew it was tax day because i got them in.
00:30:48Of course, it's patriots day.
00:30:51It's also the boston marathon.
00:30:52And would you as an expert be thinking domestic at this point?
00:30:58I don't think tax day means a lot to the arab world or islamic world or al qaeda in terms of their world.
00:31:04It doesn't have iconic significance.
00:31:06>> At this point, as an investigator, you don't want to shut down any options, but based upon the type of explosive that appears, the size of the explosive, the way it was done, this is well within the capability of somebody with too much time in front of the internet who was looking up bombs and who hates government, who hates america.
00:31:27For whatever his or her reasons for doing something like this.
00:31:32This is well within the realm of one person.
00:31:34Chris, what we don't know, for example, this horrific explosion that you're showing right now, we don'tw if it was -- i don't want to say simply -- if it was just a low-order explosive, or was there shrapnel packed around?
00:31:48In essence, was this something to get more of a dramatic impact and a few casualties?
00:31:55OR WAS THERE NAILS, BBs, SCREWS And bolts packed around where it was really an anti-personnel device?
00:32:02These are all things that investigators are going to have to tell us.
00:32:05That will tell us the motive and the type of person who would do something like this.
00:32:09>> Michael?
00:32:10>> Chris, my real answer is, the report that we got from commissioner davis, and now the subsequent report that there was an explosion at jfk library, proves the most important lesson in all counterterrorism.
00:32:24First reports are going to be wrong.
00:32:26My answer is I wouldn't go down any path yet saying this looks more like domestic, it looks more like international.
00:32:32From my take, we've had a pretty sophisticated attack, two separate devices with significant explosive impact.
00:32:40That's what we know.
00:32:40And if people start saying it looks like this, it looks like that, we're going to miss evidence that we're going to look right past.
00:32:47>> Right.
00:32:48>> My take is, we just don't know yet.
00:32:50This could be domestic, could be international, could be a group, could be an individual on the internet.
00:32:55Too early to say.
00:32:56>> Well, let's go back, I think we're going to have to recap right now we have 23 injured people and 2 dead already.
00:33:02I don't think that's progressed far from where it was, a report came in here a bit after 4:00.
00:33:08We have two explosive devices at the boston marathon at the finish line.
00:33:12See the big word, finish, there.
00:33:14We've got great film here.
00:33:15Great tape.
00:33:16There's that one runner going down from the concussion, the blast, itself.
00:33:22Most of the runners continue without any problem.
00:33:23The horror occurred right in there behind the barrier behind the police lines where you see just mayhem there with people with missing limbs and fortunately as we pointed out earlier, there were a lot of medical officials there.
00:33:33A lot of medical support people that were able to deal with those horrors, those injuries, horrible injuries as first responders right at the moment.
00:33:43We've seen the gurneys moving by in later tape here, you'll see that.
00:33:47This was -- someone planted a bomb there, two bombs with an intent to be well known in what they did.
00:33:54This is one thing we know, this was meant to be visited upon an iconic event in american life, when we celebrate so much for all the past century, practically, and in fact the last century.
00:34:04It was the boston event of the year.
00:34:05The boston marathon.
00:34:06In fact, one of the -- as complaint points out, one of the great american events along with the world series and boston marathon, the new york marathon as well.
00:34:16People are so happy and thrilled on this beautiful day to be out there enjoying the competition.
00:34:21In fact, the amateurs competing as well.
00:34:232 miles.
00:34:26I wouldn't call them amateurs especially.
00:34:27But also running against the world class athletes.
00:34:30Usually the ethiopians and the kenyans who are so good at this long-distance running.
00:34:37And are the world-grade competitors.
00:34:39All that happening in front of the world, the cameras, 96 countries represented.
00:34:44This horror occurred obviously for the world stage and thad have succeeded because already they have closed down the front of the white house.
00:34:50You can't even walk past our own president's house right now because of this.
00:34:54But we're also learning that the explosions were contained to the two there.
00:34:59There was no explosion over at the kennedy library at columbia point as we were told by the police commissioner at boston several minutes ago.
00:35:06That's not true.
00:35:06It was a fire over there.
00:35:08A mechanical fire caused by, perhaps, just a device breaking down.
00:35:12So we're lucky to have only a focused situation here at the boston marathon tonight.
00:35:18And we're waiting to get more reports.
00:35:20Clint, are you still with me?
00:35:22>> Yes, I am.
00:35:23>> Let me ask you about this.
00:35:25And the pattern.
00:35:26I know that michael said don't draw conclusions.
00:35:29Of course, the police authorities, the first responders don't have to, but it comes with the line of country I'm in, which is to try to figure out as soon as you can what happened and that's what we do.
00:35:39We all do in the news business.
00:35:41I question I guess is, what is distinctive about this?
00:35:45Is this something we've seen before?
00:35:53Isoklahoma city, like the bombing at times square?
00:35:55What is it like to you?
00:35:56What do you see it in the league with right now?
00:35:58>> Well, as an fbi agent, was involved in the oklahoma city bombing investigation.
00:36:03And I'll agree to a point that we have to keep all options open.
00:36:10But, again, that's why we have this sufficient amount of manpower between all of the federal state and local agencies.
00:36:18Chris, as you know, they're going to be developing task force teams.
00:36:22Some will be looking at domestic terrorists.
00:36:24Some will be looking at international terrorists.
00:36:26Some will be looking at the film from cameras.
00:36:32There will be people looking at every avenue.
00:36:34I agree at this point we don't want to take down one gerbil one to the exclusion of others.
00:36:42In oklahoma city, somebody suggested it had been an international terrorist event and an international person had got on a plane in oklahoma city and flying out of the country.
00:36:55Part of the fbi, we were trying to figure out who the person was, get the plane stopped, though there were those of us who strongly felt it was going to a domestic incident.
00:37:06We didn't lock on one or the other.
00:37:08We looked at all of those options until we were able to close in on one.
00:37:11That's what the authorities are doing right now.
00:37:15Again, you've got every federal agency, fbi, cia, and others, state agencies.
00:37:18They will be looking at every bit of intelligence.
00:37:21They will be looking at internet and television traffic.
00:37:24They will be doing everything they can to say, does this have an overseas component or strictly a u.s. component?
00:37:32>> Right.
00:37:33And I agree with that.
00:37:34I think we're all going to be doing our own kind of profiling trying to figure this thing out.
00:37:39I also think -- I had this tremendous political memory.
00:37:45 kennedy was killed and a cbs correspondent said I hope the right wing has its pound of flesh.
00:37:52It was lee harvey oswald who did the shooting and that was not exactly on target with what actually had happened.
00:37:58Here we have a situation which is clearly an attack, you know, we watch in the early minutes, was it a bombing or a fire?
00:38:05Was it an explosion of kitchen equipment or some oven blew up?
00:38:09We found out within a pretty short time it was an explosion.
00:38:12Then we found out it was two explosions.
00:38:15Then the assumption begins it's terrorism.
00:38:17And very quickly, we came to the conclusion a terrorist act had been committed here.
00:38:2050 this afternoon, we've gotten to the point of realizing the american people are under some kind of threat because the president just closed down the pennsylvania avenue in front of the white house to foot traffic.
00:38:33So there is some kind of an assumption within our bureaucracy that this is a serious bit of business at work here.
00:38:41To the point where the president of the united states is taking steps in his own backyard, or rather front yard, to secure his own situation.
00:38:50Clint?
00:38:50>> Yeah, chris, this is not just an attack against a political system, per se.
00:38:56It's just not an attack against the united states.
00:38:59This is an attack against the world.
00:39:00This is a world-class event.
00:39:03There are people, as you suggest based upon your experience in africa, there are people gathered around little televisions and huts all across the world as well as major communications center cheering on their individual countryperson who's running this event.
00:39:21So this is unfortunately an excellent platform for a terrorist to get up and make just a statement about hate.
00:39:28A statement about anger and frustration and rage.
00:39:32Whether it has any political tentacles, we don't know right now.
00:39:39We know there's one message that's sent and that's hate.
00:39:42We have to stand up and fight against that.
00:39:48>> We have vernon hogue, "washington post" editor who did run in the marathon today.
00:39:51Two different pastimes.
00:39:53Vernon, thank you for joining us.
00:39:55Your firsthand account, which you'll probably file, but given to us, what happened to you in the race today when you got to the finish line?
00:40:02>> Well, I finished about or 20 minutes before the bombs went off.
00:40:08I was sort of making my way through the, you know, baggage pickup area and I heard, you know, what were unmistakably bombs.
00:40:15You know, they were incredibly loud.
00:40:18Normally a very soulful, relaxed crowd down around boyleston street after the marathon.
00:40:29It was beautiful weather.
00:40:29When the explosions went off, a hush fell over the city.
00:40:32Then almost instantaneously, there were just a symphony of sirens and they just got louder and louder.
00:40:40You know, more and more police arrived.
00:40:44Ambulances.
00:40:44And they began cordoning off the prudential center.
00:40:49Basicallturning the prudential center into a crime scene at street level.
00:40:53They kept pushing the it farther and farther out telling people it's not safe to be here, leaving the impression there were active bombs they were worried about or active threats they were worried about inside prudential center.
00:41:09>> We've had two people killed up there.
00:41:10I can't believe it's not going to get worse.
00:41:12You have 23 people injured and some people in really bad shape with limbs missing.
00:41:16Did you get a look at the injured while you were there?
00:41:19Was that close enough to you?
00:41:20>> I didn't.
00:41:20I talked to one guy who was close to the finish line who said he saw body parts and basically just turned away.
00:41:28He turned me, again, he's hardly authoritative, at least one of the bombs was in, like, a coaineon the street.
00:41:37But, yeah, there are incredible numbers of people, I mean, 30,000 people running the race.
00:41:42You know, thousands and thousands of spectators on boyleston street, you know, at the finish line and then, you know, thousands of family members waiting for those 30,000 runners.
00:41:56I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a couple hundred thousand people on the ground not very far away from those bombs when they went off.
00:42:03The fact they only killed 2 so far and injured 22 is kind of miraculous.
00:42:07>> Hold on there.
00:42:08I want to talk to you a bit more.
00:42:12Let's go to bill bratton, of boston.
00:42:18What do you think of the steps now the police have to follow and the fbi to get to the source of this horror?
00:42:23>> Well, as your previous reporter just referenced, there was a huge crime scene there that they have now secured.
00:42:31And that's to allow them to conduct their investigation.
00:42:34Try to make a determination of what type of explosive device or devices were used.
00:42:40That, so there's a, if you will, a prescribed procedure they'll now be going through and they'll be utilizing the full resources of not only the washington state police and massachusetts but all the various federal agencies that are now responding there.
00:42:53>> Do you have -- is there any difference in how you approach this if you have an assumption it's domestic or foreign?
00:42:59Or do you go the same police route of looking for evidence?
00:43:03>> No, actually in terms of you start off with the assumption you know nothing and basically start going from there and try to acquire as much information as you can.
00:43:14The federalies will be incredibly helpful and critical in this investigation because the type of bomb, the type of bombs, the type of devices, type of explosives used, federal agencies can quickly identify is this potentially homegrown, is it potentially offshore inspired?
00:43:33They'll certainly be checking any threats that have been recently made relative to this event.
00:43:40The police commissioner of boston, ed davis, earlier in the press conference indicated they had had no previous threats made against the event, so that was based on his understanding of what's going on.
00:43:52>> What do you expect in terms of people ing responsibility for this attack?
00:43:58>> That's going to complicate it in the early stages because they'll probably be coming out of the woodwork to claim credit and that's the usual circumstance after one of these incidents.
00:44:09And, again, that's where the coordination between the various intelligence services, state, local, and national, will be critical to actually what type of chatter has there been that they've been monitoring in recent days?
00:44:22Was there an increase in chatter the intelligence community was watching?
00:44:25So there will be -- as you expect, a full-court press on this one.
00:44:28>> Is there anything you can do to prevent something like this?
00:44:31Even if you see it happen, say, in 2013, in april?
00:44:35Then you know next year you'll have the same event with the same finish line and the same 30,000 participants, perhaps more.
00:44:41And you'll have thousands and tens of thousands of people along the sidelines cheering people on and watching.
00:44:46Is there anything you can do to protect against this happening again?
00:44:51The same thing?
00:44:52>> Reality is that there's an expression that's used relative to these issues.
00:44:57It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
00:45:01We've been very fortunate since 9/11, the largest event we've ever had in this country, that we've thwarted, security forces, united states, have been able to thwart the vast majority of i vents.
00:45:13This is certainly the most significant event in the united states since that event.
00:45:19You can't prevent all of them.
00:45:22They do a great job of preventing most of them.
00:45:25But this event, 26 miles, actually 52 miles if you think the crowds on both sides of the street, I'm in london at the moment.
00:45:36The tension here for the funeral on thursday, for margaret thatcher, the former prime minister, then the london marathon this sunday, a huge event in the city that has unfortunately some of the highest concentration of potential terrorists in the world, that this is going to be a city that will be very much on edge over the next week now.
00:45:57>> What to you make of the police commissioner up here telling people not to come out tonight?
00:46:04Do you think that matters or is it very precautionary?
00:46:05>> Well, I think what he's doing is the reasonable thing to ask the residents of boston.
00:46:12That is a big party town after the marathon.
00:46:14I worked that marathon for years as a patrolman, sergeant, lieutenant.
00:46:20The party scene in and around that area is huge.
00:46:22So if there are additional devices, the idea of not having crowds congregating outside the bars or in the hotels, he's to be credited with encouraging boston residents to effectively stay out of the area, stay out of areas where there would be large gatherings.
00:46:40A good precaution.
00:46:41He should be applauded for that effort, and it's to be expected.
00:46:46 commissioner, i mean, I've gotten more sympathy than I have usually about the hell that people live through in countries like afghanistan and iraq and seems like every time i pick up the newspaper in the morning and start reading through the big papers, I see bombings and even at recruitment stations or at hospitals or anywhere, religious sites or weddings.
00:47:07It seems like it's going on all the time now.
00:47:09Especially in hotels around the world.
00:47:11Anywhere where people are happy.
00:47:12There seems to be a bomb about to go off.
00:47:15How do police live with that?
00:47:17Police, real veterans like yourself?
00:47:20With this new threat not just from criminals, it's from terrorists.
00:47:24>> Well, I think you have the british experience during the IRA TERROR BOMBINGS OF THE '70s AND '80s HOW THEY KEPT GOING ON With their lives.
00:47:34Certainly during world war ii, an actual full-scale war.
00:47:37We have what israel has gone through from time to time with the heightened bombing efforts in their country against buses and restaurants and hotels.
00:47:46That we managed to live through it and in america, we've been very fortunate that we have had these isolated, although horrific incidents, that have occurred from time to time, but nowhere near the frequency or daily frequency you're referencing.
00:48:02And one of the things in american law enforcement, both at the federal and local level, we've never fully understood, is why there are not more of these incidents.
00:48:12And that has always been the concern, the lone wolf, if you will.
00:48:18The inspired homegrown terrorist, particularly with access to the webs and some of the preachings and the hatred being spewed forth from around the world.
00:48:27We tnks so much for being on this, coming to us from london tonight.
00:48:38Nbc's mike barnicle is with us now from boston.
00:48:40Mike's a local up there.
00:48:42He was a great columnist for so many years.
00:48:44Michael, put it together, I'm sure this went through your heart for the past couple hours now.
00:48:50>> Well, chris, as you know, as you're well aware, this is a festive day in the city of boston.
00:48:55Suffolk county.
00:48:55The city of boston basically.
00:48:57April 19th is patriots day.
00:48:59No one works.
00:49:00Government offices is shut down.
00:49:01It's the day of the boston marathon.
00:49:0526-Mile run.
00:49:0526 Miles outside of the city of boston into downtown.
00:49:07The finish line is on boyleston street in the city of boston.
00:49:12Downtown boston is very small.
00:49:14And it's enormously congested on a day like this because you have a red sox game that starts at 00 in the morning and finishes just about as the marathoners are running to their finish line.
00:49:25Six blocks from fenway park.
00:49:27So you have the convocation of thousands, 35,000 people from fenway park spilling out of the ballpark.
00:49:33You have thousands and thousands of people from all around the world at the finish line.
00:49:38Waiting for for relatives, sisters, daughters, husbands, fathers who are running the marathon for various reasons.
00:49:47Most of them charitable causes.
00:49:50This is a planned domestic incident.
00:49:53No doubt about that.
00:49:54An eyewitness who was standing on boylston about 75 yards to his right he heard an initial explosion, saw it, 75 yards to his right, and then a sect dairy explosion within, he thinks, within about 20 seconds and 50 yards to his left.
00:50:12That's about two city blocks where these explosions occurred, meaning hundreds of innocent people, two of them we know now fatal injuries.
00:50:21But he also saw, thankfully there is an enormous triage unit at the finish line.
00:50:29DOCTORS AND NURSES AND EMTs Gathered to help the marathoners who need help as they finish the 26-mile run.
00:50:36Were is not for them, the injuries might be much higher than there are now.
00:50:42There are two dead and at least 60 injured in boston city hospital and massachusetts general hospital.
00:50:48Those estimates will probably rise during the evening.
00:50:50But the triage unit was in operation but in addition to that, chris, as is so often as is the case, a young lawyer who I spoke to, he was right there, saw a woman being helped, her leg being covered up and they didn't know if there would be a third explosion.
00:51:19They knew it wasn't a gas line explosion.
00:51:21It was a bomb.
00:51:23Apparently at sidewalk level, either in a trash basket or mailbox perhaps.
00:51:27Sidewalk level.
00:51:28A lot of the injuries were from the lower body parts of those who were wounded.
00:51:35>> Wow.
00:51:35>> So michael, this is a direct hit.
00:51:37I was saying earlier -- and i don't think it's that poetic to admit, the thing about terrorism is to make people be afraid to live their lives and to go after targets of weddings or really nice hotels or really nice resorts in mali.
00:51:56They find people that are most at ease and want people to not feel confident of life anymore.
00:52:03They want to stir fear.
00:52:04And I don't know if we're going to find out in this investigation, you know, domestic or whatever, it's going to be somebody who wanted to hurt not just individual people but the national feeling of wellness, of happiness.
00:52:18They want to hit us on a happy day.
00:52:20>> Chris, this was a stab at the heart of joy today.
00:52:25Because no one down there at that finish line is there for any other reason other than to be filled with joy and happiness at the people running at watching the runners, at just being there in a joy-filled day on this city of boston that's what it was.
00:52:45>> You know, I was just at our own philadelphia marathon several months ago and my daughter ran.
00:52:51The feeling of a marathon, wherever it is, is tremendous cooperation and collaboration.
00:52:56People run and often times a lot further than they have ever ran before.
00:53:02They may do 6 or 10 and then 26.
00:53:05There are thousands of people just standing there with water cups or cheering on just to make those people do a little better that day and be happy and feel supported.
00:53:14You're right.
00:53:16It's a true communal love fest.
00:53:19It's not usually about winning.
00:53:22Someone a really good runner wins it from somewhere in the world.
00:53:27But it's about participating in society and this idea of terrorism is to prevent that.
00:53:32>> And it's a communion of people cheering for strangers.
00:53:37You're happy for complete training injuries, people you've never seen before, people you'll never meet, you'll want to offer a helping hand to, as you indicated, with a water cup along the way or round of applause as they come armed the corner on boylston exhausted after this odd dizzy of 26 miles.
00:53:56You are part of a community in that one special moment and clearly a couple of bombs.
00:54:11>> Mike barn kill, thank you.
00:54:13This is on his own time.
00:54:16Vernon, we're talking about something good and nice.
00:54:20We don't use this word often on show, nice, about america.
00:54:23>> Yeah.
00:54:23I mean, this is the oldest marathon in america, maybe the world.
00:54:28It's 117th running of this race.
00:54:31The tradition around the boston marathon is incredible.
00:54:36And mikebarnicle was saying the scene after this race, you know, people stream across the finish line for probably two or three hours.
00:54:47So the race is ongoing, the party is starting, people are sort of meeting family members and celebrating this great accomplishment and then these bombs went off and everyone knew they were bomb sdpls we have to go, vernon.
00:55:06Let's go to mayor menino right now.
00:55:12>> I spoke with the president of the united states about half an hour ago.
00:55:17He's doing everything he can.
00:55:22Our condolensces and prayers for everyone involved in this explosion and assistance if you need some information over the next 24 to 48 hours.
00:55:35Let me just say that this is a tragedy.
00:55:38We're going to work together on this and boston police, the state police, fbi, all of the embassies we just met and committed to working together to make sure we come to a finality of what happened this afternoon and the governor has been helpful to us on several issue this is afternoon.
00:55:59I'll turn it over to the governor and have him say a few words.
00:56:03>> Thank you so much for coming out with us today.
00:56:05Obviously we all said that our condolences to the victims a their families.
00:56:11We are asking everybody to stay out of the perimeter of the explosion, about a 15-block area has been secured by the state police.
00:56:21That is a crime scene right now and it's very, very important at helping people do their job, law enforcement do their job, that people stay out of that area.
00:56:30We said earlier it's probably best that most people make their way calmly, calm and if they are visiting the city back to their hotel, the commissioner has prioritized security at the hotels just so that for everyone's peace of mind.
00:56:48We are working on -- I guess the term we're using is a drop-in center in the city so that people who are trying to find runners or family members who didn't meet at the usual meet-up space -- place because the race was cut short, we'll be in a position to announce that very shortly so that people can find some assistance to help people find their loved ones.
00:57:19I am really grateful that all of the federal, state, and local law enforcement officials are coordinating so closely and so well.
00:57:27They are talking constantly.
00:57:30They are all in investigation mode right now.
00:57:32It's very serious time.
00:57:34So we do need people to stay out of the area of the explosion for the time being.
00:57:42>> Commissioner?
00:57:42>> I'd leak to clarify one statement.
00:57:47The device at the jfk library was actually an insind rather device or a fire.
00:57:54We have not related it to this incident.
00:57:57Two explosions occurred on boylston street.
00:58:00The information that we got about 15 minutes before the prior press conference could very well be premature.
00:58:06But we are still asking people to be calm, to go to their homes and to work closely with us.
00:58:13If they have information, we need to hear about it.
00:58:17That's 1-800-494-tips.
00:58:20The area of our 15-block area around the blast site will be closed down for the next 24 hours and maybe further than that.
00:58:29People should be aware of that as they make plans for tomorrow.
00:58:33We are looking at all of that right now.
00:58:35That's one of the investigative steps that we are taking.
00:58:44>> They said they were doing drills this morning, the same exact thing that happened.
00:58:50Were you guys giving warning that this might happen?
00:58:53>> We were not given any notice.
00:58:56All of those things happened in preparation for this event but no specific intelligence that anything was going to happen.
00:59:03>> What type of device?
00:59:05Do you have any idea?
00:59:06>> At this point in time, it's too early to get into the specifics.
00:59:11It's powerful devices that resulted in serious injury.
00:59:15>> Was there shrapnel?
00:59:16>> It's too early to tell.
00:59:18>> A suspect?
00:59:20>> Those reports are not true.
00:59:23We're questioning many people but there's no one in custody at this point.
00:00:04>>> Good evening.
00:00:05I'm chris matthews with the latest on the breaking news out of boston.
00:00:09As you know doubt have heard, two bombs exploded, there they are, near the finish line of the boston marathon.
00:00:18Killed two people and injured more than 100.
00:00:21One of the people killed was an 8-year-old child, law enforcement officials told nbc.
00:00:26The white house is calling this an act of terror and there's been no claim of responsibility yet for the attacks.
00:00:33Dramatic witness video captured the horror starting with the first bomb.
00:00:38The crowd panics and begins to run and then you can hear a second explosion in the background.
00:00:43Let's watch.
00:01:11>>> The last hour, president obama spoke about the attack.
00:01:14Let's listen to the president.
00:01:19>> We still do not know who did this or why.
00:01:23People shouldn't jump to conclusions before we have all of the facts but make no mistake, we will find out who did this.
00:01:30We will find out why they did this.
00:01:35Any responsible individuals, any responsible groups will feel the full weight of justice.
00:01:43>> Steve silva is the boston globe sports reporter who shot that finish line video.
00:01:50He's now there by phone.
00:01:52Did you have a regular camera or was that a cell phone?
00:02:02>> Steve?
00:02:13Jackie, thank you for joining us.
00:02:14>> Thank you, chris.
00:02:16This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.
00:02:18We were literally right across the street from where the second explosion happened.
00:02:23It was right outside of the forum restaurant, right between the atlantic restaurant and starbucks.
00:02:28We were coming out of the parking garage there.
00:02:30I had been covering a story about this couple that was running the marathon and they were about to get married on boston common after running at 30 so we were moving our car and as we were coming out, i have the receipt that we paid for.
00:02:4649 and seconds later we heard the explosion.
00:02:51We knew immediately something terrible happened.
00:02:59My toting to photographer jumped out of the car.
00:03:06I thought I was going to get trampled, extreme amount of force and terror.
00:03:11I made my way through those people and got to the scene of where this all happened and the people were strewn about, to be quite honest.
00:03:20There were limits missing, mostly lower limbs missing and i police officer carrying a small boy who had blood all over his face.
00:03:30It was an horrific scene and everybody was running around frantically and the boston marathon was still going on.
00:03:36This was a few feet away from the finish line and runners still coming up were looking to their left with horror trying to make outt had just happened.
00:03:45Many of them likely had heard -- some people told me they had headphones on so they didn't hear the explosion while others had.
00:03:53They were all shocked.
00:03:54Other people were stopped before they could get to that point.
00:03:56We talked to people who got stopped at marker 25 and had to get explained to them what happened but they had family members waiting at the finish line for them.
00:04:06As you can imagine, they were absolutely panicked it.
00:04:10I have to make a shout out to the boston pd and volunteers.
00:04:17They were giving people their phones so they could call family members and trying to let people know they were safe because, as you can imagine, panic set in.
00:04:26>> Over 100 wounded today.
00:04:28How many were able to get out of there?
00:04:31Did they have enough ambulances for everybody?
00:04:34>> Reporter: They had a lot of ambulances there right away.
00:04:37We saw people getting carted away in the wheelchairs that they had out for people that will already there in case people came in too dhydrated and unable to walk.
00:04:51You still could not -- I was there too quickly before anything was really sanitized.
00:04:55What I saw was, as I said, limbs lost, people laying about and people trying to help them but it was all so quick and then police said, go away, go away, go away.
00:05:06We were also concerned about whether there would be another loud explosion somewhere else.
00:05:11I also wasn't sure about the structure of the parking garage.
00:05:16We got in our car to move that for anybody in the parking garage because we weren't sure what else would have happened.
00:05:21>> It strikes me when I watch -- take a look here of the casualty list.
00:05:26Each one of the major hospitals.
00:05:31Bringham williams, boston medical, beth israel has nine.
00:05:38It shows that this horror has filled the hospitals across the city.
00:05:45>> Reporter: Yeah.
00:05:46There's a lot of hospitals here.
00:05:47We have some of the best in the country.
00:05:49Those injured are in the best of hands.
00:05:51The things I saw were very horrific and they were not clean cuts.
00:05:55To try not to be too graphic, i saw people whose legs were blown off and a foot blown off and body parts strewn along the route.
00:06:07It was a scene of chaos and people were trying their best to get people comfortable and transported as quickly as they could.
00:06:14I was only on the scene for a while because I had to move that car because I was afraid of blocking people in a place we weren't sure if it was safe or not.
00:06:21That's what I experienced and i can tell you in my -- I haven't been reporting for many years, about four or five, and I can tell you it's the worst thing i have ever seen in my young life and I hope I never see anything that tragic again.
00:06:35>> Jackie bruno, thank you for " steve shot that video and he's joining us by phone.
00:06:46Steve, tell me about this.
00:06:48What were you doing at the time when you put your camera on that site and just happened to catch both explosions and sequence there.
00:06:56>> I do a finish line scenes for the marathon.
00:06:59I'm out there for about five hours because you have the professionals and charity runners coming in.
00:07:05There were over 9,000 runner ins still out there at 2:50 p.m.
00:07:09I was dead center on the finish line waiting for someone to do a cartwheel across the finish line and off to the right side, there was a large thud, a loud thud and it went off -- I thought, was this some kind of some one coming across that is important, like a firework?
00:07:33And than we all ran towards it and it was different.
00:07:36We were absorbing the situation and the second bomb went off half a block up.
00:07:40One was on the corner of boylston and they all go up the street alphabetically so the next one is fairfield.
00:07:51We understand that they were both in trash cans.
00:07:53It was just a hhorrific scenes.
00:08:02I saw a man whose leg was blown off.
00:08:07He wasn't the only one.
00:08:08There were body parts everywhere.
00:08:10>> We know from the kennedy assassination years ago, trying to find out whether the blast comes from, in this case, a blast.
00:08:18Could you tell in your mind's eye, could you tell that the blasts came from streets, perhaps from trash cans, or inside buildings?
00:08:26>> No.
00:08:27They were in the sidewalk.
00:08:28You can tell in the video, it was clearly outside.
00:08:36It's partitioned off with a gate.
00:08:39It was inside the gate.
00:08:40The crowds are probably 10 to 15 people thick at that point.
00:08:45There are open public trash cans and the understanding is the devices were deposited in the trash cans during the race and timed them to go off simultaneously.
00:08:56>> Would that be consistent -- i guess that explains the injury, they were all at knee-high and looked what was shrapnel but could have been coming from the trash cans.
00:09:07>> That's right.
00:09:08They are lined with metal bars going around and then a liner that goes inside.
00:09:15Probably blew that right apart.
00:09:18It appears to be leg injuries and I can certainly agree with that.
00:09:22>> Did you get a still out of this, is this going to be in the globe?
00:09:27Will they be able to isolate that moment of explosion?
00:09:30>> We had a couple of photographers on the scene.
00:09:37Immediately on the scene as well and I think david abel.
00:09:41We had a couple folks out there.
00:09:42I was just shooting video so our com but I'm sure we'll have dramatic photos in tomorrow's paper for sure.
00:09:52>> We appreciate you giving us this photo.
00:09:54You took a great picture there.
00:09:57It gives us a tremendous sense of what happened.
00:10:02Let's go to michael leiter.
00:10:05I'm well beyond my ability in talking about this but tell me where I'm right or wrong.
00:10:11He said it was clearly outside but he think it is came from the trash cans.
00:10:16>> It's possible.
00:10:16It's really hard to tell, chris.
00:10:18We've seen over and over today, this started about 2:50.
00:10:22I would say about half of what we hear is right and half of what we hear later on is wrong.
00:10:28We heard that there was a bomb at the jfk library.
00:10:32>> Exactly.
00:10:32>> We have to take this slowly and the president was right about that.
00:10:36It's going to be a methodical investigation.
00:10:39Could they have been in the trash can?
00:10:43It's certainly a possibility.
00:10:45Were they timed to go off later and potentially hurt first responders, we're not sure yet.
00:10:51>> What does it tell you that the people lost legs and limbs, going horizontally, the blast.
00:11:02>> It suggests that the blast was close to those people and across the ground rather than something higher up.
00:11:09That's self-explanatory.
00:11:17Shrapnel may have been included.
00:11:18What this shows, at least, is these are not small incendiary devices.
00:11:29This was intended to kill and maim.
00:11:33This is in the midst of a huge public event.
00:11:37>> The trade center was filled with thousands of people and buildings, iconic buildings.
00:11:41>> Right.
00:11:42>> Here it wasn't an iconic building that was the target.
00:11:47It wasn't a big insurance building or anything like that.
00:11:50It was a bunch of people.
00:11:53What does that tell you?
00:11:57Just aiming at regular sort of street traffic -- I don't know if I've heard something like this before.
00:12:03I guess we get into the movie theaters and schools, it's indiscrete.
00:12:10But people that happen to be standing there, they are not in uniform, they don't represent a government agency, they are not bureaucrats.
00:12:17They are just people who happen to be in a spot cheering on runners.
00:12:21>> You know what -- >> killing that, like the regular people.
00:12:26>> As you know, being from boston -- I lived in boston for a number of years.
00:12:32It's patriots' day.
00:12:34It's something that everybody in the northeast -- >> actually, I'm from philly.
00:12:41So I know the boston area and i do know how much pride that city has and the sports teams.
00:12:48We all know about the sox and we know that anything in boston, it's the -- what do they call it?
00:12:55The hub of the universe and they believe it.
00:12:58>> We haven't seen this sort of attack be successful in the united states but we've seen things very similar to this attempted.
00:13:04On the international terrorism front, 2009, 2010, a plot against new york city subways, a bomb fizzled.
00:13:16That's the power of terrorism.
00:13:19You can't harden everything.
00:13:21You can go after large assemblies of people but to defend against all of this all the time is impossible.
00:13:27I think what we've seen so far in boston is real success in the response.
00:13:31I hope that we're going to see equal confusion.
00:13:34>> Let's talk about that.
00:13:35I know you don't want to speculate.
00:13:39Le you're a one step at a time kind of guy and I'm a little different.
00:13:48If it's american, it could be anti-taxation, anti-government.
00:13:51We don't know yet.
00:13:53This doesn't explain itself.
00:13:54In other words, if you're a terrorist group or person, this does not explain itself unless you just hate people.
00:14:00You have to come out and put a banner out, this is why I did this.
00:14:04Look out.
00:14:04And if it's a foreign group, they are going to have to explain themselves, too, otherwise it doesn't many anything.
00:14:10Don't you have to put an advertisement on -- >> people are going to claim responsibility.
00:14:16>> Fake people are going to claim and people who did do it may or may not claim.
00:14:21>> Why wouldn't they claim?
00:14:22Why would they do it and not claim?
00:14:24>> If you look at what happened WITH timothy McVey, he never claimed anything.
00:14:34There were indications and ultimately that's how we caught him, with great forensic information.
00:14:40But he never raised his hand up and said I did this.
00:14:43I think chances are somebody is going to claim responsibility for this, someone who really did it.
00:14:49The forensic investigation, going through the intelligence from overseas potentially and domestically, we're going to find it.
00:14:57>> What does april 15th mean to you?
00:14:59The anniversary of the action by the atf and fbi, what does the april 15th tell you?
00:15:07Anything?
00:15:08>> It's one of 20 things that might mean something in this investigation.
00:15:13It's something.
00:15:14Are people going to think about tax?
00:15:17Yes.
00:15:17>> Taxasshustes?
00:15:22>> I'm looking at this conceptually rather than evidentiary.
00:15:27Thank you, michael leiter.
00:15:31Bill bratton is the great commissioner.
00:15:37Thank you for coming back tonight.
00:15:38I don't know if you've accumulated any more evidence except for as the horror that an 8-year-old was killed and also the two people dead, we have new numbers on the wounded.
00:15:51Over 100.
00:15:52" they are at every one of the hospitals at the boston area.
00:15:59Their patients are the people who came from that scene right now.
00:16:11>> Like michael, I'm an evidence guy and after 40 years of covering these types of events, the first story is never the last story.
00:16:17You will appreciate this story has changed quite a bit over the last several hours.
00:16:22What we clearly know is that there were two separate devices, a horrific number of devices and injuries.
00:16:31Two deaths being reported.
00:16:32There will be a phenomenal investigative effort made to quickly identify who did this.
00:16:39As michael indicated, as of now, nobody is claiming credit.
00:16:45And they will eventually do that, though.
00:16:47They will come out of the woodwork and claim credit for it.
00:16:52>> What do you make of this trash can thing?
00:16:55You're far from the evidence for that, the idea that the trajectory of the blast went knee-high, apparently most of the injuries were to the lower forms of the body.
00:17:05A kid was a target, or one of the victims of that.
00:17:08And then this all happened out in the street here.
00:17:12People putting bombs apparently in these trash cans.
00:17:16>> Well, one of the stories is that it wasn't a trash can.
00:17:21The idea of a type of trash can, it may have, in fact, pushed the explosion up rather than out.
00:17:26It's one of the things they are going to have to determine where were the two devices?
00:17:31Were they in something such as a trash can or were they just on the ground?
00:17:37They just don't know at this stage of the game.
00:17:39It's going to take a while to determine that and they will let the general public know what they know.
00:17:45>> What kind of a drag net?
00:17:50Earlier with the reverend rented al sharpton, when you look for somebody -- people obviously it seems to me a person could drive or whatever.
00:18:00They could take the bus.
00:18:01The airports, what do you think about the airports?
00:18:04Can you begin to check on that and catch somebody before they leave town?
00:18:10>> They would looking at the airports because that's the one area that they have records of who is coming and going.
00:18:17You don't necessarily have that on buses or trains and certainly not in automobiles.
00:18:22They will be looking to retrieve at those locations where automobiles leave the city.
00:18:33They will be seeking to gather information from any source possible this is an extraordinarily heavy busy time.
00:18:48The investigation will be comprehensive.
00:18:53The square while in that area, they are looking at every camera that is facing on the street and somebody at the scene picked up early on, farther away.
00:19:04I'm reminded of the terrorist bombing in london, the subway bombing and how they were able to track entering the system from miles away and repeated instances they will be able to replicate that as part of this investigation.
00:19:26>> Can you draw a radius and keep growing it as to how far a person can be away at a certain point in time?
00:19:34If they detonated this at 50 this afternoon, can you tell how far away they are right now?
00:19:41>> I would not be able to.
00:19:43We don't know how it was detonated.
00:19:46Was it with a timer, remote control through a cell phone?
00:19:49I don't think anybody at this point in time understands how it was detonated.
00:19:55>> Well, thank you very much.
00:19:58>> Thank you.
00:19:58>>> Let me go to chuck todd, our chief white house correspondent.
00:20:04Can you give us a sense as to how this is going to be a national story, a national investigation?
00:20:10>> I can tell you a few things.
00:20:11Number one is, when you heard the president's statement -- and many people have made note of the fact and the white house acknowledges that the president used the word "terrorism" and i can tell you from talking to sources, they discussed whether he should use that word or not and they made the decision not to.
00:20:30It's not that they don't believe and are not treating this as an act of terror but they are being very careful, the president himself seemed to emphasize this, they still don't know who do this and nor do they know the motivation.
00:20:45Is it a group, international, and I can tell you, you can hear it in the president's voice.
00:20:52There's clearly some frustration about how little they seem to know and it's my understanding that michael leiter is listening in on this y would there be such concern internally about being careful about whether you call something terrorism and why they may have made the decision not to?
00:21:13>> Michael?
00:21:13>> I think the reason is, as we saw in libya, anything that the president says is going to be parsed over and over and over again for the next who knows how long and in that respect we know this wasn't an accidental explosion.
00:21:32At that point you're left with a criminal act or a terrorism and the only differentiator is whether or not it was politically motivated.
00:21:40We don't know it was politically motivated or not but I think it is more than a fair guess to say that if you are planting bombs around lots of people at the end of the boston marathon, this is not just a criminal act.
00:21:54This is someone who wants to kill people and I think that if there were not the likelihood that people would attack the president from both parties, all sides, if he gets an initial statement wrong, they would be saying terrorism now.
00:22:10>> Chuck, I guess we all made the assumption that the government, the fbi will be able to catch the bad guys, or bad guy.
00:22:23Remember back -- I remember, i was a capitol policeman back in 1971 and I've got to tell you, they never found out who blew up the inside of the capitol.
00:22:32Nobody knew how bad that damage was.
00:22:34I knew it and other officers knew.
00:22:37A huge bomb went off somewhere, right going down into the foundations of the buildings doing incredible damage.
00:22:45I remember going down there to look at it.
00:22:47They never made a conviction.
00:22:49So we don't always catch the bad guys.
00:22:53Therefore, can't we establish we can't always establish their motives?
00:22:58>> Let's remember the atlanta olympic bombing and how long it took.
00:23:02And some people don't take credit.
00:23:04I heard bratton say that they expect someone to take credit.
00:23:19I had another security official say that one reason they know so little.
00:23:23It's either one of two things.
00:23:24It's a brand-new group that they haven't been tracking or the person is just a completely unknown individual acting as a lone wolf.
00:23:32Would that be the conclusions you'd be coming to at this point?
00:23:36>> I probably wouldn't go that far this soon.
00:23:39The reason is that often after one of these events, when you go back in the intelligence stream, you will see something which starts to give an indication and it will turn out that someone who you thought was unknown was connected to a group that you should have been watched.
00:23:56This happened to some extent with the bombings in london in 2005 where they thought it was someone that they had been watching for some time and then dropped surveillance.
00:24:09I think it's a good guess to say that it's an individual or a new group.
00:24:13I think it's too early to say, chuck.
00:24:16>> Again, you can start the circle.
00:24:20Because of the type explosive is not state-of-the-art, just like you can't figure out how far the bomber had gotten away from the scene at the time it happened, you have a question of how wide of a loop that covers.
00:24:37It can cover anybody who is experienced with studying the internet.
00:24:41>> That's right.
00:24:42Precautions at the airport is because you think somebody involved might be trying to fly away.
00:24:47Part of it is because you don't know what is going on so it makes sense that if there is a follow-on attack.
00:24:55You don't know anything specific so you go as wide as you can to start and the investigation slowly narrows the suspect and will also enable you to limit the extent of your additional protective measures that you have to take.
00:25:08>> Chuck, can you tell me something about the president after studying him for months and years now, does he give advice?
00:25:16Does he suggest areas of emphasis over -- efforts to -- does he say what he thinks or does he just say how it's going?
00:25:26>> No.
00:25:27Look, this is the first one of these incidents that he's doing without john brennan by his side.
00:25:33He was the chief counterterrorism official.
00:25:35He's at cia.
00:25:36He's got a new person at his side on that front.
00:25:42What I'm sort of reading into this and I'm only reading into it is that he's used to getting information a lot faster than they are getting on this one.
00:25:51>> Yeah.
00:25:52The but of course this frustration seems to be law enforcement-wide.
00:25:56Michael, are you surprised, we are now near five hours after the incident.
00:26:01Are we just too used to you guys being so good that you usually have the leads after three or four hours are on the way and we know so little at this point in time?
00:26:14>> I think that is right, chuck.
00:26:18Especially when we disrupt an attack.
00:26:21The reason we knew so much as soon as it broke is because we had been following him for days.
00:26:26But when it's a surprise, it really does take time for this to be surfaced.
00:26:30And just a note on the president having served with president bush and president obama, i think the early days of the administration president obama gave people a little bit of room but I saw the president become i am immeshed in these issues and he will be poking fingers, demanding answers.
00:26:54He's not going to get involved in the operations and tell bob muller what to do.
00:26:59>> He'll be saying, what about, what about?
00:27:03>> Let me ask you before chuck leaves, what about the other bombs?
00:27:08Perhaps two others, one at a hotel, one somewhere else, we're hearing, that didn't explode, that were set to explode, obviously.
00:27:16It could have been worse.
00:27:17What does that tell you, four different bomb sites?
00:27:20>> I'm go to be the evidence guy on this.
00:27:22We know there were packages or bags that the boston police department treated as potential explosive devices.
00:27:29We don't actually know if they were bombs or not.
00:27:32We know that there were bags that people couldn't identify and treat it as devices.
00:27:36>> Did it blow them up?
00:27:37>> They probably disabled them, either with a water cannon and even there the numbers have shifted on these other packages.
00:27:48I don't think we know how many devices there were other than two.
00:27:55>> Pete williams is with us with more on the investigation.
00:27:59It's your beat now.
00:27:59The fbi.
00:28:03>> Let me pick up on that.
00:28:04We still don't know how many explosive devices there were.
00:28:08We know that two went off.
00:28:10There could have been others because packages found on the street were deemed suspicious.
00:28:15They were destroyed but we haven't heard any confirmation on whether at least five other packages actually were explosive devices.
00:28:22Some officials say there is reason to think at least a few of them were but we still don't se people that the investigators are very interested in talking to.
00:28:38One of them is a young person who had a student visa who has burns and was seen running from the area.
00:28:47Now, of course many people were running from the area and some were injured.
00:28:52So what particular reason there is to be interested in this person, we're not sure of.
00:28:57But nonetheless, that person is being aggressively questioned now.
00:29:02Officials say two bombs that went off included shrapnel to multiply the injuries that.
00:29:09WOULD INCLUDE BBs AND BALL Bearings.
00:29:11That's not an innovation but a technique used in other attempted bombings here in the u.s. by domestic terrorists.
00:29:19Investigators are looking at surveillance video to see if they can see anyone actually placing packages at the points where these bombs went off.
00:29:29There is some indication that they are being lucky with the surveillance video but we don't have a final conclusion on that.
00:29:35A couple of officials describe these devices as crude and although they caused two deaths and over 100 injuries it could have been much worse.
00:29:47The devices have less explosive power than might have been contained in packages of this size.
00:29:55So the second thing -- the third thing I should say, chris, we're told by several officials that there is no reason to think that there is any kind of threat elsewhere, that this is part of anything else larger.
00:30:07Nothing to indicate that.
00:30:12The boston police have said there was no warning ahead of this.
00:30:19Nonetheless, simply as a precaution, security was stepped up around the white house and in other cities in hotels and places where crowds gather, new york, for example, some airports are stepping up security but a homeland security official says that no directives have been set out suggesting a higher alert.
00:30:39These actions being taken are being taken by local authorities simply based on what you and i can see.
00:30:46You've been making comparisons to other attacks.
00:30:51This is reminiscent of the atlanta bombing in 1996.
00:30:54That was done by a white supremacist.
00:30:57That one, two people were killed and more than 100 injured and that was placed where a big crowd gathered and the other thing that immediately came to my mind was three years ago when a white supremacist planted a backpack bomb, including shrapnel coated with rat poison along a parade route planned for spokane but fortunately that was discovered before the event, a few hours before the event and it was safely removed.
00:31:25>> Let me ask you about the suspect that ran away.
00:31:28How do they know he was a student here on a visa?
00:31:32How did they i.d. the guy?
00:31:34>> I'd be careful about the word suspect.
00:31:37They are not calling him suspect at this point but this person, yes, they know he has a student visa because when he showed up at the hospital with burns, he and had a student visa.
00:31:48They didn't know that beforehand.
00:31:50There is interest in talking to that young person.
00:31:52>> So they have him?
00:31:53He's available to them?
00:31:55>> Yes, in the hospital being questioned.
00:31:58>> So that could mean hardly anything.
00:32:01In these kinds of cases, do they -- how do they operate?
00:32:03We've been talking about the conceptual idea of profiling.
00:32:07Does this person follow the pattern of a domestic terrorist or foreign terrorist?
00:32:12Is there anything in the evidence gathering or do they have to decide through triage of where to put their effort?
00:32:18Do they make assumptions, such AS APRIL 15th, A BOMB NOT THAT Sophisticated, it could have been somebody with a political angle that wanted to do damage but not part of anything big and strategic?
00:32:32>> Well, they will work it on a number of levels.
00:32:36On the ground, at the scene they will be trying to pick up every tiny evidence that they can to try to figure out how they were made, what the explosive composition was and how they were to be detonated.
00:32:50That itself will suggest a certain signature because there are certain kinds of construction of devices favored by, say, domestic terrorist versus foreign terrorists.
00:33:02That's the first thing they will do.
00:33:04Second thing they will look for is evidence from witnesses.
00:33:08That kind of thing.
00:33:10Sthird to go back and look at the intelligence tape that led up to this event.
00:33:16Was there, for want of a better term that is often used these days, was there chatter that indicated that something like this was planned?
00:33:24So I think it's fair to say there won't be any assumptions, that in fact that might give investigators a tunnel vision.
00:33:35They will be venostic.
00:33:45>> How successful have we been in the age of cell phones -- everybody has a phone of some kind, a camera of some kind.
00:33:52This must be one of the whole new ways of police work where you immediately try to round up everybody that has a phone on and taking pictures because they are also picking up audio.
00:34:03>> Absolutely.
00:34:04A lot of those things will be looking towards the runners and the bomb is coming, for most of them, from behind.
00:34:13So you never know but, yes, that's one thing that is done these days.
00:34:17In addition to trying to find eyewitnesses, they will look at any kind of video that was recorded in the area and try to -- this is a painstaking process so you get hundreds of different angles in addition to the conventional video cameras in businesses and stores.
00:34:49>> Pete, you're great.
00:34:50Pete williams, justice correspondent for nbc news.
00:34:56>>> Brian levin is with the study of hate and extremist in san bernardino.
00:35:05Thank you for coming in.
00:35:07There you have it.
00:35:08Now we have you.
00:35:09What is your sense of smell?
00:35:11Do you have one about this?
00:35:12Do you have a pattern in your head?
00:35:14What do you see of this whole horror?
00:35:19>> The chatter analysts that come out and say they know who it is are the ones usually wrong.
00:35:24So let me tell you what the schematic that we use when we train folks, psychologically dangerous, someone with cognitive impairment.
00:35:46Third, personal benefit or revenge.
00:35:48Here are a couple interesting things I'd like to put together.
00:35:50First of all, there are cameras all over the place.
00:35:54So they will piece together stuff as it comes in.
00:35:57The other thing I want to say is, there's a lot of stuff that the local and federal law enforcement know that they are not going to put out because it's going to hamper the investigation.
00:36:06They are not going to do it.
00:36:08Don't think that they don't know what is going on or that they don't have a bigger picture than they have.
00:36:13A couple of things.
00:36:15We know it's patriots' day up in bass ton.
00:36:21Boston.
00:36:22It's a holiday.
00:36:22It could be an anti-government person.
00:36:25We talked about eric robert rudolph and that kind of thing.
00:36:29Remember, large symbolic events attract a variety of unstable people.
00:36:36Let me put another thing in the mix.
00:36:38Just within the last week or so there has been a jihadist handbook that has been released that shows a variety of things about how lone wolfs can cause havoc and in there they put a pipe bomb.
00:36:54But for every individual, an unstable sociopath, I think someone can make an argument.
00:37:04Right now the only thie know is that we have to cast a wide net, not a narrow one, and we don't want to indite whole communities.
00:37:16An argument can be made for any of these types of people.
00:37:19>> HOW ABOUT APRIL 15th, BRIAN?
00:37:21Does that tell you anything?
00:37:23>> Joe stack, joe stack crashed a plane into the irs building as well.
00:37:29We have anti-government, anti-tax people.
00:37:33We have the recent release of a handbook designed by al qaeda to train loners in small cells.
00:37:45They have a pipe bomb similar to one used here if in fact it was one.
00:37:50Let me say this.
00:37:51I would point to smaller rather than bigger.
00:37:54And what I mean is, as deadly as this was, this was not a sophisticated type of device that would be beyond someone who was committed who could have access to handbooks on the internet available to a wide variety of people who could have motives ranging from domestic anti-government, anti-tax all the way to international and, of course, never under estimate the wide card, someone with a symbolic event, a date that is an anniversary, can attract all kinds of people and not necessarily the person you might not think at first would do it.
00:38:38>> If this person was out to kill a lot of people, it seems they would have detonated this bomb -- two bombs at a time when there was a large crowd of finishers crossing the finish line.
00:38:49As we've seen in this horrible picture, there's only one guy finishing there that fell.
00:39:02Does that tell you that he was finishing this by a time bomb?
00:39:06Because he's not getting a lot of people at this point.
00:39:10>> It could.
00:39:11But here's the point.
00:39:12Even bombs that have timers.
00:39:14And here's the thing.
00:39:16This kind of information is all over the place.
00:39:18And for every suspect movement that you could say would be involved with this, I could show you someone who can find a type of device that would have a timer.
00:39:35Timers sometimes do not work the way you want them to work.
00:39:38I think whoever did this was doing it to get it done and they knew that it would make a big splash.
00:39:46But, again, I think its somebody smaller rather than bigger.
00:39:52Al qaeda does not like these kinds of small kind of attacks.
00:39:56However, there's been a split -- within al qaeda, for instance, they are trying encouragone wolfs.
00:40:06There is a variety of individuals who were attached to movements for their own reasons and it's just too soon to tell.
00:40:14I think it's interesting the date has significance to people in the anti-government and by the same token encouraging loners to cause mayhem here in the united states just came out as well.
00:40:28So that's the information we have.
00:40:30It's all speculation beyond that.
00:40:33>> Thank you very much, brian levin, for coming on with that.
00:40:38Brian has a good sense of the different groups and we don't know how it all connects here to reality.
00:40:44It's just these are the various forces of the world.
00:40:46Michael?
00:40:47>> Yeah.
00:40:48Chris, this is still -- this is a step by step process now.
00:40:51I agree with brian's main thrust which is it's too early to say.
00:40:59Starting to put protective measures in place because you dot really know what this was caused by or who caused it.
00:41:06That's the stage we're in now.
00:41:07We are just, just starting to enter the phase of who, where, why, is there an additional threat?
00:41:16You can draw lots of implications.
00:41:18It's easy to connect the dots if you know what the conclusion is.
00:41:21>> It seems to me watching this it doesn't always follow the evidentiary tale.
00:41:27Someone trying to run a red light 20 minutes away, they are sweaty and nervous.
00:41:33>> After the fact, it's clear why it happened.
00:41:35We're in the earliest hours and that's when you have to be careful not to connect the dots that shouldn't be connected.
00:41:41Or people talk and all of a sudden this guy is bragging in a week or two and he's caught that way.
00:41:50That's how human frailty works.
00:41:53All right.
00:41:54Thanks so much for coming on tonight.
00:42:02Katy tur.
00:42:05Sorry.
00:42:05What's new?
00:42:06We've got over 100 injured people.
00:42:08We've got people at every hospital up there.
00:42:13Bringham, williams, massachusetts hospital,tuft israel.
00:42:18It seems that the whole city has become a hospital for this horror at the boston marathon.
00:42:23>> Reporter: Certainly the whole city is on alert.
00:42:25100 People injured at least.
00:42:27You have two people dead.
00:42:28We've learned in the last hour that one of those dead people is an 8-year-old boy.
00:42:33One law enforcement official or source has told us that which was just a huge tragedy.
00:42:38You have people walking around these streets here in a state of shock andbelief and looking for some answers.
00:42:46There's so few answers so far.
00:42:48The homeland security chairman is officially calling this terrorism.
00:42:56The white house may not be causing it terrorism but he is.
00:42:58He says it was not an accident.
00:43:01It was innded to harm and scare.
00:43:04It's done just that.
00:43:05Dozens injured and two people dead.
00:43:07It was timed at the height of the race around the four-hour mark when most of the racers would be finishing that race.
00:43:14We're at the back bay of boston.
00:43:16You know it's a very busy area very popular area, especially after the marathon.
00:43:21Everybody is celebrating around here.
00:43:23There are number of bars that should be packed right now but they are completely empty.
00:43:28Everything is shut down because people are trying to figure out what happened.
00:43:32Right behind me two blocks away is the finish line.
00:43:35That area is completely frozen as they continue their investigation.
00:43:38There's about a 15-block radius where they are stopping any cars from entering this area.
00:43:44The commissioner -- the police commissioner has asked everybody to go home, to stay inside, to stay safe, partially because they are not sure if there are any more threats.
00:43:56Everything dropped along the race route is being considered a suspicious package.
00:44:00As you can imagine, it's a marathon.
00:44:03People are dropping things left and right and when everything started to happen, people were dropping more stuff as they were trying to get away from the scene.
00:44:11Initially people thought it could have been an accident but 15 seconds later once that other explosion happened, people started to realize this probably was not an accident.
00:44:20It probably was intentional and that's when you started seeing panic.
00:44:24There were people with shrapnel wounds.
00:44:27There was shrapnel involved with the explosions.
00:44:30A lot of lower limb injuries.
00:44:31People have very serious bleeding.
00:44:35One person reported seeing somebody get a tourniquet in the middle of the street which you would never see happen.
00:44:54People are walking around with a glazed look in their eyes.
00:45:00From the aisting the federal, straight, and local municipalities.
00:45:16They are pouring over surveillance video and try to figure out as much as they can about the moments leading up to he a the moments after those two explosions.
00:45:24>> Is there anything new on the john f. kennedy library?
00:45:30Whatever happened in terms of an incendiary device or do we know?
00:45:37>> Reporter: As of now, they are saying -- officials are saying this it was not an incendiary device, that it was just a fire.
00:45:47The timing is very suspicious but we're not getting very many answers about that fire.
00:45:52There was a third undetonated device that they did find.
00:45:59No word on what exactly caused that fire or whether or not it was intentional.
00:46:04They are being -- not many answers right now.
00:46:10>> Katy tur, thank you.
00:46:14We'll be back after this.
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00:50:05>>> we're back with the latest from the bombing at the finish line of the boston marathon.
00:50:10You know, the music temps me it's moving into history.
00:50:13We had the initial smock of learning what happened, now days perhaps finding out exactly what was the culprit behind it.
00:50:21Two people killed, one was an 8-year-old boy.
00:50:25And more than 100 are in various boston hospitals right now.
00:50:32Vernon will never forget this day, he was running as a civilian in the marathon.
00:50:36We're going finish up our hour, and let you do a big part of it.
00:50:41Narrate as a good journalist your personal experience today.
00:50:44>> I've run the boston marathon ten or 11 times, I have it written down.
00:50:53I can't remember.
00:50:53I love this race.
00:50:54This is an iconic race.
00:50:56Everything about it is special.
00:50:58It's been run for 117 years, steeped in tradition, people have to qualify to get in, so really serious runners train and compete for a place in this race all year.
00:51:10And, you know, I even stopped this morning as I was walking to the bus to go to the start line and stopped on the finish line and took in the scene.
00:51:18To think bombs were going off a few hours later is heartbreaking and I cut the marathon will ever be the same.
00:51:25>> When you look back at the pictures, do you feel what you were through?
00:51:31>> I'm sorry?
00:51:32>> The pictures we're watching over and again, was that the experience?
00:51:37>> Chilling to watch.
00:51:38Because to see those people, you know, approaching the finish line.
00:51:43It's an incredibly joyous moment, you've been out there 2 miles, almost at the finish line, to see them knocked off their feet or stride for a runner is really chill.
00:51:58It was me out there 30 minutes before.
00:52:01And it's such a great day here on patriot's day.
00:52:05The stay is closed, the city comes out for the marathon like you wouldn't believe.
00:52:12So whoever did this hit a special target and knew what they were attacking.
00:52:18>> Why do you want to compete so hard to get into the marathon?
00:52:21Why kill yourself to be able to run 26.2 miles?
00:52:26>> You know, if you enjoy marathon run, you got to run boston.
00:52:30It's sort of like if baseball fans were allowed to play in the world series, yeah, we're not like the top marathoners who win, but to run in the same race with them ask just really special.
00:52:46And then there's the whole allure of the course, heartbreak hill, the up and down rolling aspect of the course, get to mile 18 and hit with three back to back to back hills called heartbreak hill.
00:52:58It's really the most iconic, special course in american running.
00:53:02>> And now it's going to be known for this.
00:53:04>> Yeah.
00:53:07Yeah.
00:53:07I can't imagine what it'll be like next year.
00:53:09It fills up incredibly fast now.
00:53:13A place in the boston marathon is so coveted.
00:53:16It fills up so fast, and i wonder whether it will.
00:53:22: >> It'll fill up faster.
00:53:24>> You're probably right.
00:53:26But people are going -- I'm sure security will be much more intense.
00:53:32>> It's interesting the feelings that come over people as they reach the finish line.
00:53:36That will be different.
00:53:37Congratulations on being a good witness to a horrible event.
00:53:41I know you'll write about this, and I'd like to read what you write.
00:53:45Thank you very much.
00:53:47>> Thanks for having me.
00:53:47>> He was in the race, not on gut duty.
00:53:50Michael is back with us, I'd like you to finish out.
00:53:53I want to say something about boston, I worked up there for tip o'neill.
00:53:57That city, region back in the 50s AND 60s WAS A DYING AREA, Lost textiles to the south because of labor, shoe industry, lost the industries, and they were dying and came back.
00:54:11It's a very positive part of the country.
00:54:13The spirit of the sox fan sun matchable.
00:54:16And the spir that have community, the hub of the united nations they call it, england is a region, centered around boston.
00:54:24It's so much a comeback region for the last 50 or 60 years, i don't think it's going to hurt it.
00:54:29>> This is a terrible tragedy.
00:54:30This is a time to think about the victims, figure out who did it and catch them.
00:54:35But I'm with you, I lived and worked in boston for four years, I was just up there last week.
00:54:42This city like new york did, like pennsylvania did, like did, will recover and do great, and my prediction the boston marathon will be bigger, and more emotional than ever.
00:54:56I happen to have run the marine marathon in 2001 just a couple months after 9/11, and this city and this country, regardless of who did this, comes back from these things very, very strong, and boston will too.
00:55:10>> I think it's good for america that we have this comeback.
00:55:14But we to want find out who did this.
00:55:16I have no idea.
00:55:17I've seen the building down in oklahoma city tied to, yes, it's extremism, I hate to say right wing, it's nothing to do with voting for mitt romney, it's extremism, won't swrois its name, only way of communicating is this.
00:55:34This is how it talks, and maybe an individual.
00:55:37Ought it was great the way you pointed out that it could be a psychological situation, ideological, revenge, I could see mixes of the motives.
00:55:49And I think this country can get through it.
00:55:51And the country, 300 million people, I am astounded by how many sane and good people who vote when they have a political opinion and don't to want get involved in this.
00:56:03It isn't our usual coverage.
00:56:05We've dropped a night of discuss discussion about gun control ask safety and the question of what's going to happen in the senate.
00:56:13We have great news, far more important, I believe in the terms of our future about a society safe with our use of guns, that vote's coming up, probably tomorrow, a vote on whether we have the bill accepted.
00:56:29We've got up to 60 senators willing to witt stand a filibuster.
00:56:35It could fall short and then ask ourselves the question, 58 united states senators who want to see gun safety passed, better background checks, including sales at gun shows, that one symbolic response at newtown, if it's only 58, I think we'll have to try again.
00:56:56It may take another disaster for us to try again.
00:56:59We will.
00:56:59The issue of immigration, who is going to decide whether them people become americans or not?
00:57:06Under what circumstance do you, legal if you came here illegally.
00:57:12That is within reach.
00:57:14We have 70 senators behind it.
00:57:16There's a good chance that we will have workable politics on the issue of guns and immigration.
00:57:21This is going in a good direction.
00:57:23So even with today's tragedy, there's great reason for optimism, great reason to believe that our republic, which has its roots in boston and philadelphia, is going to prevail and succeed.
00:57:36So it's been an interesting and terrible night, but I do believe as we proceed as a country, this will not be the norm, the norm will be how we respond.
00:57:45Michael, your last words about how the investigation goes down?
00:57:49>> Slowly, methodically, and find the people who did it.
00:57:54>> And?
00:57:55>> And americans have to understand that the threat of terrorism domestically and internationally is with us.
00:58:04Doesn't have to change the way we live.
00:58:07We're going to experience some hits like this, but, again, next year, we're going to have the marathon.
00:58:13We've got to grieve with the families who lost people today, and find the people responsible.
00:58:19>> What we saw today with 9/11, not quite as dramatic, fire fighters racing up the stairs, but great reaction by the first responders today.
00:58:32They were in those -- they were in those ambulances and they were in the hospital fast.
00:58:36They were divided up among the various hospitals, good triage.
00:58:41Now, if you're head of the fbi, up late tonight and early tomorrow morning, what is the major goal of the fbi?
00:58:51Evidence on the ground?
00:58:53Collecting cell phones?
00:58:54Ports of entry?
00:58:55>> All of the above.
00:58:57Bob will make sure all the evidence coordinated with the boston police department, they're going to come through, talking to agents across the country, check with sources, who knows what.
00:59:07Going through social media, seeing if there's anything there.
00:59:13Working with the cia.
00:59:15Everyone is going to have long nights across the country figuring this out.
00:59:18>> Michael, it's been great working with you great to have you viable to us.
00:59:24Our coverage of the explosions continues now with chris hayes.
00:00:02Rachel mad dow.
00:00:08>>> Thanks to you for being here with us.
00:00:11I'm rachel maddow the show is coming to you live just outside the hospital.
00:00:21Today is patriot's day, which is a holiday here in my home state of massachusetts.
00:00:27It's the day that tens of hows, no hundreds of thousands of people pour into the city to cheer on their loved ones who are running the marathon.
00:00:37Three people were killed today in those explosions that were timed to go off at the finish line.
00:00:43Among the people dead is a child, an 8 year old boy.
00:00:47More than 130 people have been injured.
00:00:50We are at massachusetts general hospital where within the last >> there's a variety of yen juries.
00:01:09The most serious are combined, soft tissue, bone jury h yen juries.
00:01:17Many of them involve the lower extremities.
00:01:23A lot of small metal debris.
00:01:24Some people have asked if they were bb's or small bits of metal.
00:01:33I don't think we're able to say whether they were there intentionally or part of the vachlt.
00:01:39>> There have been doctors and surgery the since early this morning.
00:01:44He's performed several surgeries on victims of the bombings.
00:01:52The trauma surgeon describing that one of his medical partners has military experience and has served in iraq and afghanistan, he was describing that wartime experience as being very useful today as doctors treated some of the more than 130 people who were injured.
00:02:11There are many, many unanswered questions tonight, including unconfirmed reports on devices found.
00:02:22Law enforcement officials have not confirmed that there were other unsploided bombs.
00:02:31The official confirmation is that there were two devices.
00:02:37To the extent that there were other devices today, isolated and treated in some way by law enforcement, those may have been devices that were investigated as suspect packages and done away with by law enforce.
00:02:56.
00:02:56No arrests have been made.
00:02:57The investigation is now being headed by the fbi in conjunction with other federal and state and local agencies.
00:03:04I want to bring in a young man who is an eyewitness.
00:03:10He was eating with co-workers when he heard the first explosion.
00:03:16So you're about 100 yards away.
00:03:18What did you hear?
00:03:19>> Bewere inside the restaurant.
00:03:22Heard the first explosion.
00:03:23Kind of shook the building a little bit.
00:03:27We kind of wondered what it was.
00:03:29Looked outside and saw some smoke.
00:03:31Actually ran outside.
00:03:33Then the second one blew up about 100 yards from us.
00:03:37>> Did they sound like they were about the same size?
00:03:40>> The first one sounded small, because it was a little bit further down the street.
00:03:44I didn't realize until I watched the same size.
00:03:51Ran back into the restaurant, i told everyone a bomb went off.
00:03:55I mean, that's -- and some people were in shock.
00:03:58They thought I was joking.
00:04:00Some people thought it was a sewage pipe bursting or something.
00:04:04>> Manhole?
00:04:05>> Yeah.
00:04:05So we kind of stood there.
00:04:07And I was telling everybody to get out, run.
00:04:10We didn't know what to do.
00:04:12I went to twitter to see if there was any news.
00:04:15That's the only thing I could think of.
00:04:17There was nothing on twitter yet.
00:04:19You know, it had just happened.
00:04:21I tweeted out that, I think a bomb just went off at the finish line.
00:04:27And about that time, it started to get chaotic, you know, cops telling us to run.
00:04:33So the restaurant's emptying out.
00:04:35We're running down the streets, like a scene from a movie.
00:04:39>> Did you know where you were running to?
00:04:41>> No.
00:04:42It was absolute chaos.
00:04:44Just masses of people just running down the street.
00:04:46And we kept running.
00:04:47They were, you know, directing us all the way, I mean, we started out right in front of the prudential center and ended up out in fenway.
00:04:56There was runners still running by, didn't realize what was going on.
00:05:00Nobody was stopping them, really.
00:05:03That was the crazy part.
00:05:05Because they had headphones or whatever.
00:05:08>> One of the things that unfortunately in coordinated attacks, one of the aspects of terror people experience is that there are multiple occasions that you saw.
00:05:19It was not one event, it was two events.
00:05:22So presumably you're afraid there was going to be a third.
00:05:25>> That was the craziest thing.
00:05:28You don't really know where's safe?
00:05:31Where it is to go?
00:05:33I didn't know if we should stay in the restaurant.
00:05:36We were running in the masses of people.
00:05:38And you didn't know if another explosion was going to occur.
00:05:41It was just the unknown, which that's the scariest feeling I've ever had.
00:05:46You feel like you're so close to death there.
00:05:48You just wanted to run home and kills my wife at that point, just yen stain.
00:05:52>> And at that point, no police officers or anybody on scene is able to tell you which way to go or where to go.
00:05:57>> All they're say something run.
00:06:00I mean, they're, you know, feeling the same things we are at that point.
00:06:05They didn't know what was going on.
00:06:07It was just chaos.
00:06:09>> Nobody in peacetime situations in the united states ever has a police officer to just tell them run.
00:06:16>> Exactly.
00:06:17>> It's not a good sign.
00:06:20Thank you so much for telling us what you did.
00:06:23Appreciate it.
00:06:24>> Jerod walker, again, an eyewitness today.
00:06:27He was about a hundred yards from where those bombs went off.
00:06:30There were so many eyewitnesses today because these bombs wednesday off in such a crowded area.
00:06:35At the finish line at the boston marathon, it's the most crowded of any where, but people line that route throughout its 26 mile path.
00:06:45That's part of why it's a big day in boston and why it's held on patriot's day.
00:06:54It's part of the reason, i think, it's so jarring to bostonians, it's the opposite of what we think of this day.
00:07:04Bombs and incendiary devices have been used as weapons before in this country.
00:07:11And they are sometimes deadly.
00:07:12Not always.
00:07:13Sometimes.
00:07:15They're always disorienting and terrifying.
00:07:18And over time, when you look at these incidents.
00:07:20Whether you look at different bombings in american history that have been done by different people to different effect, one.
00:07:27Things that happens and pretty much every time, is that it can take a long time to figure out what exactly happened.
00:07:33How many people were killed and hurt and who was responsible.
00:07:36In the last 20 years, consider some of these bombings in u.s.
00:07:40Soil.
00:07:411993, The first attack on the world trade center.
00:07:47The truck bomb tore apart the lower part of the world trade center.
00:07:53More than a thousand people were injured.
00:08:01700 Fbi agents investigating the first world trade center bombing.
00:08:111994, The man we call the unabomber sent a letter bomb packed in a piece of mail to an advertising executive in caldwell, new jersey.
00:08:20And the explosion killed that new jersey man.
00:08:24The unabomber had been sending bombs already for 15 years by the time that happened.
00:08:301995, The oklahoma city bombing.
00:08:35A truck bomb killed with explosives killed 168 people.
00:08:42It was on the anniversary on the raid on the branch difficult id yan kpounl.
00:08:49The bureau of alcohol, to be ak o he and firearms carried out that raid.
00:08:55At first, after the oklahoma city bomb, there was speculation that there maybe was connection between those two events, that maybe it had been branch davidians survivors who carried that out.
00:09:10That was not correct.
00:09:11It turns out the guy who was responsible tor that attack, tim think McVey was already sitting in a jail cell about 80 miles from the attack.
00:09:20He'd left the scene of the attack.
00:09:22He'd been pulled over by a police officer because the vehicle he was driving was missing a license plate.
00:09:28Police officer arrested him for carrying a concealed weapon and ultimately he was arrested for killing 16 8 people.
00:09:401995, The unabomber struck again.
00:09:43It was another year before the fbi finally arrested ted kaczynski.
00:09:50It took years for them to identify and catch him.
00:09:561996, The olympic games in atlanta.
00:10:00A security guard at the park saw the bag and started clearing the area when the bomb went off.
00:10:06A woman was killed by the bomb.
00:10:07Another man had a heart attack as a result of it.
00:10:11More than a hundred people were wounded.
00:10:16The security guard in this case, a man named richard jewel went from hero to suspect and became suspected in that crime, although he was never actually charged with it.
00:10:25He was the subject of wide spread public speculation and suspicion before he was cleared eventually of any wrongdoing in that attack.
00:10:341998, A bombing at an abortion clinic which killed one person and seriously injured another.
00:10:40They used a row bott to search for a second bomb there.
00:10:43They thought the bombing might be maybe connected to other attacks in atlanta.
00:10:48In that case they were right.
00:10:49Five years later, five years after that bombing of an abortion clinic, eric rudolf was arrested for that bombing at the olympic games that had been wrongly blamed on the security guard.
00:11:08In 2000, an arson attack on a temple caused $700,000 in damage.
00:11:16A naturalized sit ten was found guilty.
00:11:18In 2002, somebody planted 18 pipe-bombs.
00:11:24Six people were injured.
00:11:26It's amazing that no one was killed.
00:11:29Police had no idea who the serial pipe-bomber was.
00:11:37The 21 year old was arrested and convicted.
00:11:47Thankfully nobody was injured.
00:11:48Security tame showed a man on a bicycle near the scene, but nobody was ever charged with a crime.
00:11:54Also in 2008 an explosion at a federal courthouse in san diego.
00:11:59Nobody was injured.
00:12:023 Pounds of explosives with over a hundred roofing nails packed in.
00:12:06It took agents from the a tfl f, the fbi and the local da's office to solve the crime.
00:12:17A man with money problems planned it to collect the reward money.
00:12:23He ended up sentenced to 55 years in prison.
00:12:29The fbi took over the case, treated it leak domestic terrorism.
00:12:33Nobody's ever been charged for those attacks.
00:12:362011 At a martin luther king june josh parade, city workers found a backpack with explosives.
00:12:47The february was able to track the fishing weights which led them to a white supremacist.
00:12:56Those are just some of the attacks by explosive device that we have seen here in the united states in the last 20 years today.
00:13:05Some of the more ignorant commentary asserted that nothing happened like this in the united states.
00:13:11Nothing has ever happened at the finish line of the boston marathon on patriots' day.
00:13:20It's not like we have no experience with people setting off bombs.
00:13:25What we can learn is that sometimes it takes a while to figure out who it is.
00:13:31Over these incidents in the last 20 years, it took time, it took time before anybody knew what happened let' lone who had done it and why.
00:13:45I want to bring into the conversation michael lighter.
00:13:48He's a national security analyst.
00:13:53 lighter, thank you very much for be being with us again.
00:13:56>> Good to be back with you, rachel.
00:14:00>> In terms of what we know, now, we are now hearing from law enforcement sources that the only two confirmed smoesive devices are those that exploded.
00:14:10That other packages that may have been detonated or exploded or done away with by law enforcement today may just have been things they were investigating as potential suspect devices.
00:14:22Does that change anything in terms of potential leads or what you think the scale of the investigation might be?
00:14:28>> I think it changes the, my view of the attacks a little bit.
00:14:33Although, I have to say I'm not at all surprised that initial information has proven to be wrong.
00:14:38That happened every time in these investigations.
00:14:41Whether it's how many people were injured, how many weapons, what kind of weapons.
00:14:46First reports are always wrong in the confusion.
00:14:50More bombs, more weapons, i think would pretty clearly indicate greater sophistication.
00:14:56But as you just suggested in your piece, we have to be so careful about drawing conclusions too early on.
00:15:04So frankly, fewer terrorism professional whether it's an unabomber or islamic international terrorism.
00:15:26>> Governor deval patrick is taking time to describe the area as an active crime scene.
00:15:35In a technical sense, does that mean it is still a place they are collecting evidence and so potentially has to be sealed from outside contamination?
00:15:44>> They'll do their best.
00:15:45I think a large area is sealed and certainly the area around the street a the route is going to be very, very carefully examined for forensic evidence by boast the boston police department and fbi.
00:16:03It's important that evidence is not contaminated so you can do good forensic analysis and try to track it back in a way that you can identify who did this, where it came from, what sorts of materials were used whether or not there's a certain signature associated with these bombs that the fbi or alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives have seen in the past.
00:16:27It's an enormous area that they have to cordon off, and they will probably need to have it closed for a period of 12, 24, 36 hours to do this sort of investigation.
00:16:41>> I was listening for a time today to the boston emergency police scanner, which is the publicly accessible scanner that anybody can listen in on.
00:16:52Hearing the calls for the boston police department for all off-duty police officers to report to their districts.
00:17:03Everybody ist work.
00:17:04Everybody is on this.
00:17:05In that kind of an environment with a large city like this, large police department, obviously the first responders on the scene are race volunteers, runners themselves, passersby.
00:17:18And emts.
00:17:19How does it work practically to have the foeb in charge?
00:17:27Fbi is coordinating it.
00:17:29What does that mean when they're dealing with a large sort of resources.
00:17:34>> First of all, new in being a real attack is not new to the city of bosthe state of massachusetts and the federal authorities up there.
00:17:42Back in 2011, just over two years ago, and previously before that the federal government in conjunction with boston did exercises exactly to prepare for situations like this.
00:17:54So what you have is the immediate response is always going to be governed by the boston police department and fire department.
00:18:07And then over team there will be a transition to the fbi.
00:18:10But most importantly, this has to be done hand in hand.
00:18:13The state, local and federal cooperation, this isn't honestly like the movies, where the fbi shows up and says we're in charge now.
00:18:24The relationship between the fbi and state and local authorities in these situations is so much more advanced than it was.
00:18:30And having worked with commissioner ed davis and the fbi for many years, this is ha team that's going to work well together.
00:18:37And I'm really confident that people shouldn't expect fights and turf battles.
00:18:43Peel understand, this is a time when everybody works together.
00:18:48The fbi will lead, but the fbi will lean on every agency to collect the information necessary to track these guys down.
00:18:58>> In terms of how this happened today, obviously what everyone wants to know is who's responsible and how they're going to be brought to justice.
00:19:05But in terms of terrorism or even, even crime as an ongoing threat, in large scale security environments like this, do you feel that we are actually better now at protecting large scale security events leak the boston marathon or other large scale events that happen in other major cities than we were before 9/11?
00:19:32It's worrying to see something leak this happen when we feel like we've been safer.
00:19:42How could something like this happen in an environment that's this secure and do you feel like we've made a lot of progress.
00:19:52>> That's a great question.
00:19:54I still brief despite this awful tragedy, that we are much, much safer.
00:20:00But what we're safer from is the risk of a catastrophic attack.
00:20:07We hope that the intelligence will help us disrupt it before it happens, like past plots against the new york city subway system.
00:20:15We hope that as an explosion or attack begins, someone mate be able to disrupt it as we saw in times square.
00:20:22And unfortunately, some of these are going to get through.
00:20:25And then what we hope and what we prepare for is a better response to reduce the casualties.
00:20:30We have to think of this as a set of multi layer defenses.
00:20:34And because we have an attack like this does not mean that we are not safe.
00:20:41It means that we are going to live for the foreseeable future with -- what we should take from this is we have to defend against these things, reduce the likelihood of the big, big scale attacks, and then be really resilient.
00:21:02And we've heard that from first responders and bystanders about how they're not going to let this affect their lives.
00:21:10This is a tragedy, but we shouldn't take this as the system has failed, we're not safer -- we are.
00:21:17But things are going to get through and we're going to have tragedies like we will today.
00:21:22>> And one of the only ways that we can help frustrate the aims of people who do things like this is to show how resilient we are.
00:21:35Thank you very much.
00:21:36It's good to have you here.
00:21:38>> Thank you, rachel.
00:21:40>> I want to tell you that the fbi has set up a phone number for anybody to call request information on today's attack.
00:21:46They are describing their call for toips in terms of people who may know anything about what happened in boston today in terms of no information being too insignificant, no potential lead being too small.
00:21:58If you do have information that you think might be of help in the investigation into what happened today in boston, the number to call is easy to remember.
00:22:06It's 1-800-call-fbi.
00:22:19Stay with us.
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00:25:26>>> Earlier today I was briefed by my homeland security team on the situation in boston.
00:25:34I've directed the full row sources of the federal government to help state and local authorities protect our people, increase security around the united states as necessary and investigate what happened.
00:25:44I've spoken to fbi director muller and secretary napolitano and they're organizing the appropriate resources to respond.
00:25:57I've updated both parties and there are no republicans or democrats, we are united for our fellow citizens.
00:26:07I've also spoken with governor patrick and mayor menino and made itlear that they have every resource available to care for the victims and counsel the families.
00:26:18And I made clear to them that all americans stand with the people of boston.
00:26:22We still do not know who did this or why.
00:26:25And people shouldn't jump to conclusions before we have all the facts.
00:26:29But make no mistake.
00:26:32We will get to the bottle of this.
00:26:35And we will find out who did this.
00:26:37We'll find out why they did this.
00:26:40Any responsible individuals, any responsible groups will feel the full weight of justice.
00:26:47>>> President obama speaking earlier today after being briefed on the bomb blasts that killed three people near the finish line of the boston marathon and injured well over a hundred more.
00:27:00Many of those injuries grievous.
00:27:04What is the white house saying at this hour?
00:27:05What are you hearing from the top?
00:27:07>> Well, good evening, rachel.
00:27:10Senior administration officials tell me that president obama will continue to be briefed on this situation throughout the evening.
00:27:15Right now the white house is approaching this as an act of terror.
00:27:19I can read you the latest statement that we have from a senior administration official and I believe we have a graphic of that as well.
00:27:29Any event with multiple explosive devices is clearly an act of terror and will be approached as an act of terror.
00:27:36However, we don't know yet who carried out this attack.
00:27:39And a thorough investigation will have to determine whether it was planned and carried outpy a hist group, foreign or domestic.
00:27:47Now I can tell you that is really the key question here tonight.
00:27:50Was this carried out by a terrorist group homegrown?
00:27:54Or a foreign terrorist group.
00:27:57And the white house just simply does not know.
00:28:02There are still a lot of questions about who is responsible for what happened today in boston.
00:28:07The president was made aware of 00 this afternoon.
00:28:10He was briefed on the situation as he pointed out in his remarks, he did make phone calls to mayor tom menino, I have been here all afternoon.
00:28:20I can tell youoments after those blasts went off in boston, pennsylvania avenue outside of the white house was shut down, closed to foot traffic.
00:28:30It is normally closed to cars, to vehicles.
00:28:33But today it was closed to foot traffic.
00:28:36It was done out of an abundance of caution.
00:28:39That I something that is sort of par for the course when there has been a breach of security in another state.
00:28:45So that is something that we would expect, but I can tell you that at this hour pennsylvania avenue is still closed down to foot traffic outside of the white house.
00:28:54And, again, president obama continues to monitor this situation.
00:28:57We expect him to receive briefs throughout the evening.
00:29:02>> Kristin walker, thank you very much.
00:29:05It's good to have that perspective.
00:29:07I want to bring in now from boylston street in boston, nbc's kerry sanders who's out there in the ld.
00:29:16I understand police are still on the scene right now.
00:29:18What can you tell us about what things look like right there now.
00:29:23>> It is pretty much shut down.
00:29:24And it will continue to be that way through into tomorrow.
00:29:27The authorities are treating this vast area as a crime scene.
00:29:30It's possible that there may be perhaps it will reveal itself.
00:29:37And so most of the access in and out is going to be restricted.
00:29:43There's a tremendous presence of police officers here.
00:29:48The boston department is on alpha bravo shifts.
00:29:54The focus here is to find a suspect or suspects.
00:30:00Ed davis, the police commissioner says that anybody who briefs that there's a suspect at brigham womens he said that is not correct.
00:30:12Fine line between person of interest and a suspect.
00:30:15Bottom line is everybody has the same question, who is or who are responsible for this and followed by the question, why.
00:30:23Tomorrow will be a difficult day in the city.
00:30:26As much of the city will attempt to operate.
00:30:31Things will move much slower.
00:30:32The transportation system, the greenl line that runs on the surface, it's going to move slowly because officers are going to be checking packages, checking backpacks.
00:30:47This is a city with a lot of universities.
00:30:50A lot of people carrying backpacks.
00:30:53All of that is going to move slowly now that they know that these bombs had shrapnel inside and that is what caused so much of the damage here.
00:31:03Shrapnel are like little ball BEARINGS OR BBs THAT HIT PEOPLE.
00:31:09Very painful and in this case deadly.
00:31:11What will happen for the police?
00:31:13Well, the police have on their front several approaches.
00:31:16First of all, as we mentioned, looking for details, perhaps some piece of evidence that will reveal itself tomorrow.
00:31:22But they're also working their intelligence network.
00:31:25And that means that if it is a group of people, likely somebody is going to say something to someone.
00:31:31And it will maybe even be revealed overnight.
00:31:34And police will move in.
00:31:36But if it's a single person here, just one person who is responsible, it could be that much more difficult.
00:31:42And that's why they're asking members of the public who may have an idea, may have a suggestion, may have not so much a theory, but somebody, something doesn't sit right.
00:31:53They want that information brought to the police department.
00:31:56They're also asking people to provide information to the fbi as well as to the police departany video, any pictures, things that you may have took that you didn't think was important may now be important.
00:32:12So there's a whole team of task force that will be looking at those pictures brought in, even though it may be a picture taken hours before the race, hours before the explosion, something there may be useful.
00:32:23So the authorities are urging people to please provide that information.
00:32:27And as you know, as all of that comes in, it's a mountain to get through.
00:32:31But they have a team here.
00:32:32They have folks from the fbi, and just about every other agency in the state contributing what they can to see if they can try to solve why their happened and who's responsible.
00:32:45Rachel?
00:32:46>> Nbc's kerry sanders.
00:32:48Thank you very much.
00:32:50Appreciate you being out there in the cold for us.
00:32:52It is row markable.
00:32:53One thing that has changed over the past decade is the word from law enforcement when incidents like this happen.
00:33:00It used to be about leaving the police to do their job.
00:33:03More and more you essentially hear police, fbi, law enforcement of every kind saying give us everything you've got.
00:33:11Tell us everything you know.
00:33:14Don't self censor.
00:33:19We have more faith in our data mining acts than we used to.
00:33:24We're an intelligence based apparatus in this country and we want it if you've got it.
00:33:33Seeing that change over time gives us some sense of how we've evolved.
00:33:38Both at the international level but in terms of responding and being resilient once it happens.
00:33:43I want to bring in peter kraus.
00:33:52Based on what we know thus far, what are you most curious about?
00:33:56What are you watching for the most in terms of figuring out whether this might be adescribable to terrorist groups that beano of?
00:34:04>> Well, I think the fact that you have a number of different bombings going off, definitely a signature for possible planning from either lone wolf individuals or an organization.
00:34:14You want to look for claiming.
00:34:16As far as I know, no group has claimed the attack.
00:34:22You want to look to some degree whether you have video there.
00:34:26On one hand this was a god attack for these people because it was a public event.
00:34:30It's a soft target.
00:34:34On the other hand we have live streaming of when the bombings ocowered.
00:34:41Also people calling in tips i think would be very helpful.
00:34:45>> There's been nothing that's been characterized as credible.
00:34:50We've heard that there's been some noise in internet chat rooms, but nothing anybody is taking all that seriously.
00:34:56I wonder about what we are able to tell from the size and sophistication of the bombs.
00:35:02Is bomb making capacity, bomb making technique now so democratized that a bomb leak this doesn't lead you to a specific group of experts because almost anybody could do a bomb like this.
00:35:16>> It's scary to say, unfortunately this has been democratized for some time.
00:35:25Directions for this are on the internet.
00:35:27The issue is that if this is a lone wolf individual, someone who's motivated but not necessarily trained, we see a hundred people who can't shoot straight.
00:35:41Oftentimes you need people who are from the battlefield who can carry these attacks out.
00:35:47Even though it seems leak getting access to bombs is easy.
00:35:52It's a scary thing that people have access to these weapons.
00:35:56I don't think we can say it's this type of group or this type of individual.
00:36:03The weapon itself is not so sophisticated.
00:36:09>> In terms of boston's resilience, do we knanything about how good a counter terrorism boston is.
00:36:24>> In terms of actual attacks, there have been a number of false starts, but we haven't had anything of this magnitude.
00:36:33I guess I would say this.
00:36:35On the one hand, this is a target that makes a lot of sense for somebody trying to get notoriety.
00:36:42One of the things you were talking about before, what makes an attack a strategy cal success.
00:37:01What's going to happen next year.
00:37:03There's going to be more than ever before.
00:37:06Memorializing the people who died here today as well as the first responders.
00:37:10We had a couple people killed despite many more wounded.
00:37:14There was quick reaction time.
00:37:17In the way this can have a political impact, you couldn't pick a woshs target in terms of cowing people.
00:37:25Instead, when weem come back with resilience, showing that we're not going to be cowed by this, it's infective.
00:37:31So in many ways they made a mistake here.
00:37:34>> I felt exactly that way.
00:37:38The london marathon is going ahead as scheduled with resilience inity mind.
00:37:43>> It should be.
00:37:44>> Thank you for being here.
00:37:51More of our coverage at the boston marathon when we come back.
00:40:40>>> We were about a half block from where the bombs explode.
00:40:47We were waiting for a friend who had run the marathon.
00:40:53We were having lunch when this massive explosion occurs and we can feel everything shaking.
00:41:03A second blast hit.
00:41:04We looked outside.
00:41:06A plume of smoke up in the air.
00:41:08We saw the building across from the spectator stands, shaking.
00:41:12And that's when panic-struck everyone in that restaurant.
00:41:17>> That was alicia lane from knbc in los angeles who was in town here in boston to cheer on a friend running the marathon.
00:41:27The investigation began today almost immediately.
00:41:30Federal agents joining local law enforcement in trying to figure out what happened and who did this.
00:41:36Earlier tonight, not long ago outside mass general I spoke with congressman keating.
00:41:42Represents the suburb south of boston.
00:41:45He's also a member of the house homeland security committee.
00:41:50He has a good perspective on what happened here today.
00:41:54You are a new congressman.
00:41:56You are not new to massachusetts politics.
00:42:00Am I right that you serve on the homeland security committee?
00:42:04>> That's correct.
00:42:05>> Can you should any light in terms of how this incident should be characterized.
00:42:11How we should think about their investigation going forward?
00:42:13>> It's hard to separate yourself out from being someone that's represented boston before and being here.
00:42:21The city is just, has a somberness that I can't remember in a long time.
00:42:28Try to do that as all of us are looking at the family members of now three people that have lost their lives, and I think the number is at 120 now in the number of people that were injured.
00:42:42And you try to make sense out of something that makes no sense in what appears to be a terrorist action.
00:42:48And we don't know.
00:42:49From a homeland security perspective, you look at the symbols, because that's what terrorists try to attack.
00:42:56That's their targets.
00:42:57And here we had the marathon, which is the oldest in the country and one of the largest in the world.
00:43:03It's an international event, attracting almost 100 countries that have runners here.
00:43:09So it's that kind of symbol that a terrorist would look at.
00:43:13And also it's tax day.
00:43:14IT'S APRIL 15th.
00:43:15And if it's a domestic type of terrorist that hates their government and wants to rebell against it, that's also a symbol as well.
00:43:25I think we'll follow the evidence the way law enforcement people do, being a former da, you only know what you know.
00:43:32And they're sorting those things out.
00:43:34I can tell you this, that the fusion center here where the federal law enforcement people work with the state law enforcement people and the local is one of the finest in the whole country.
00:43:44It's rated that way.
00:43:45And so there's though question in my mind that that group added with the assets of the entire country right now, that the president is calling on, will bring the person responsible to justice.
00:43:59There's that level of confidence right thousand.
00:44:01But it's hard to even go there when you're sitting there, that people that you know, and people that know other people have been injuin this.
00:44:14Three have already lost their lives.
00:44:17It's hard to get past that, but the professionals who are doing their are doing that and they will bring that person to justice.
00:44:23>> And one of the reasons i wanted to get specific about the details we have from the hospitals is because while this targeted apparently the funnish line, it really did target the bystanders.
00:44:37You don't have 2 year old kids running the marathon.
00:44:42They're there as babes in arms.
00:44:44>> So many of those family members are people running for charities.
00:44:48They might have a family member who has cancer or another kind of ailment and they're running to raise money for that.
00:44:59And their loved ones are sitting there at the are finish line to embrace them after a long commitment of time.
00:45:05>> In terms of the type of attack, one of the things that's broken late is that there's reportedly a number of uneevices.
00:45:18And we don't have all of the information yet.
00:45:22And they're telling us to proceed with caution as to how many events might have been planned in addition to the explosions that happened.
00:45:32>> There are sources that we've had that have told us that there are at least two other bombs that weren't detonated as well.
00:45:39So you can look at the brighter side of it and said it could have been worse without the medical, hospitals that we have so clear, without the triaging that's there for the marathon any way.
00:45:51It's small solace to those people that are lost their loved ones and, you know, the people that have been injured.
00:45:57But their could have been worse.
00:45:59, though, one of the things that occurs to me about having unexploded devices in custody is that that's very valuable evidence in terms of tracking the types of devices these were and in terms of getting leads for the investigative tro ses.
00:46:17>> And the devices that have exploded are very valuable in terms of evidence.
00:46:22We're bringing the best people in the country here to boston.
00:46:26We've got some of the best to begin with.
00:46:28But they're bringing in people from the fbi, from new york and other areas that are especially trained on that.
00:46:36And this is an amazing country.
00:46:38And as much as we feel that we're pulled apart tonight i think of all those people running shoulder to shoulder.
00:46:46And this city is lifeless tonight.
00:46:48But there will be tomorrow.
00:46:49And we're going to be pulling together as a country.
00:46:51And this is a very resilient city as well.
00:46:55And we will pull together an help as much as we can, the victims.
00:47:00And we're going to make sure the people that did this are brought to justice.
00:47:07>> That's congressman bill keating of massachusetts.
00:47:10And I spoke to him just a little bit over an hour ago.
00:47:14And to give you an idea how quickly news is changing.
00:47:19Our discussion there about there being unexploded dough vices has since been surpassed by the facts.
00:47:26And we're now told not to say definitively that there were any other unexploded dough voices other than the two that in fact exploded.
00:47:36There have been other package, suspect packages that have been taken care of by law enforcement officials.
00:47:43They were treated as suspected packages, we do not know if they were unexploded bombs at this point.
00:47:50And we can't say if there were any other unexploded devices found.
00:47:55Joining us now is pulitzer prize journalist.
00:48:01He's the guy you want to talk to.
00:48:03He is the definitive author of the american response to terrorism with the 1% doctrine.
00:48:11Thanks for being here.
00:48:13In terms of how america responds to threat and how america responds to terror, obviously investigation and law enforcement is a huge part of this, but there's more to it, too.
00:48:24>> It's interesting.
00:48:26There are things you can control and things you can't.
00:48:29We're probably not going to be able to stop these kind of attacks.
00:48:35Leaving a backpack in a crowded place like this is almost unstoppable.
00:48:39Remember the goal of any bomber, whether it's a lone wolf or a group is to create fear and panic.
00:48:46And part of what I think has happened since 9/11 is there's been a great public education.
00:48:52As to this dialog the public is having with whoever this is, whoever does these things to us.
00:48:57Whether it's an organized group or a lone wolf.
00:49:00And I think part of it is what the british call keep calm and carr eon?
00:49:06The brits have learned a lot of these lessons.
00:49:09They had the ira a long time before al qaeda arrives.
00:49:14We need to do that too.
00:49:16We're not going to change our basic character.
00:49:18We're going to try to remain true, to essentially being the way we've always been.
00:49:23And I think that is a challenge, though, now.
00:49:27You feel the havoc growing across the global news cycles.
00:49:31And you say, look, for someone doing something leak this, you're trying to get in the mind of a bomber, maybe this is a victory.
00:49:40There's fear all over the unit.
00:49:43There's a question of where next?
00:49:46I think the next 24 to 48 hours will be important in terms of leadership, people in the law enforcement community as well as the political actors.
00:49:59Let's take a deep breath.
00:50:00>> In terms of how we have evolved as a country, in terms of the way our leaders talk to us as the public, but when we are given instruction, reassurance and given response from our leaders, both in law enforcement, politically, is there a new consensus that it ought to be about resilience and it ought not be about revenge or some kind of acute response.
00:50:25Has that changed?
00:50:26>> I think it has.
00:50:28There's a balance.
00:50:29People get it now.
00:50:30They're like wait a second.
00:50:31What we do now is important.
00:50:33Let's not just go no ha frenzy and a froth.
00:50:36As well in a so the owe voce conversation.
00:50:44People are signaling from out inned wide, in the wide pop lass as to all right, bad thing happened.
00:50:52Horrors have unfolded.
00:50:54And.
00:50:55>> It's not the first, it won't be the last.
00:50:58>> It won't be the last.
00:50:59And the fact is whatever you say about how this was done, it had some sophistication, it was two bombs that occurred, seemingly in a kind of siel ultanity that was not effective.
00:51:11And the bottom line is that no matter what we do as a society, if we remain a free society, this sort of thing had happen and will happen again.
00:51:20And part of what we're learning now is what do we do in response.
00:51:25>> And how do we stay who we are.
00:51:26>> Absolutely.
00:51:28>> Great to have you here.
00:51:31Pulitzer prizewinning journalist.
00:51:33If you have not read the 1% solution, today is a good day to start.
00:51:40We have more on the story, including the team from newtown, connecticut who ran the race today.
00:54:49>>> I'm reporting live outside the hospital in boston.
00:55:0120 Students andix educators were killed in the newtown shooting.
00:55:09And the 26th mile was dedicated to the memory of those 26 victims, a team from newtown, connecticut ran in their honor.
00:55:19Watch.
00:55:19>> Today brought another round of heartache for a teeny connecticut town that has already suffered so much.
00:55:26The 117th boston marathon was dedicated to the memory of the lives lost in the newtown, connecticut shooting.
00:55:35Each runner marked 26 seconds of silence.
00:55:39For some runners, it was personal.
00:55:44>> In a way, it's a little bit reliving what we felt like on that day and the days after.
00:55:50It was pretty horrific.
00:55:53It's hard to wrap your head around that another horrific event has occurred.
00:56:04>> Reporter: The symmetry was inescapable.
00:56:10Runners in a world famous event that celebrates life, remembering the school children and educators that died last december.
00:56:22A pediatrician from newtown was one of a small group of parents who took part in the marathon.
00:56:31Her fourth grade daughter survived the shooting.
00:56:35>> We hit heart break hill.
00:56:37Weigh know it's nothing like the pane and suffering that our parents are feel back home.
00:56:42And it's just running, but we want our tens to count.
00:56:45And we want our parents and families to know that we're not quitting, and they can never quit.
00:56:52But they're in our hearts always.
00:56:57>> Reporter: Their goal to support a charity called newtown strong.
00:57:02>> And when we hit boils ton street, we're going to sprint that day to get to our children.
00:57:15And we're going to fly like those little children flew.
00:57:20And we're going to let it all out and run ffreedom and the full on love of life that the kids had.
00:57:30>> Reporter: Their marathon plans were elaborate.
00:57:33There was even a marker dedicated to the san at this hook victims.
00:57:39And in the vip stands, a section set aside for families of the newtown victims.
00:57:46And then this.
00:57:48Yet another senseless act of violence, reverberating in a place still raw from its own anguish.
00:57:56>> Why would anybody do this?
00:57:57You know, they have to find who did this and take them to justice.
00:58:03>> Reporter: And tonight, a report that one 8 year old had died and multiple others had been injured touched a place that has yet to heal.
00:58:14>> It brought back that feeling that everybody that you know is okay.
00:58:20>> Reporter: Few may be as heartfelt from those from this town that is still mourning horrific losses of its own.
00:58:31>> That was dateline's androe a cannon reporting.
00:58:36I live in massachusetts.
00:58:38I live about as far as boston as you can get and still be in massachusettsment but living in my state means that you're in and out of boston all the time.
00:58:47I have friends here.
00:58:48It is a place I love.
00:58:49It is a place I never expected to be standing in reporting in front of mass general under these circumstances.
00:59:03Tonight mike hayes tweeted this picture from new york city.
00:59:07Specifically from brooklyn.
00:59:09It's a projection from the new york city light brigade.
00:59:13And it's a projection onto the outside of the brooklyn academy of music.
00:59:18It read the darkness cannot drive out darkness.
00:59:22Only light can do that.
00:59:23Underneath this one, you can see the lighted letters spell out l

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